Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

That is one valid point of view.

If you think we have any influence on what goes on in the EU I think you are badly mistaken - Cameron voted against the EU Treaty - the EU simply ignored him despite the fact he was supposed to have a veto.

I'm sorry but this is just wrong, spectacularly wrong. Huge chunks of the way the EU operates are down to British involvement, shaped to suit British interests or based on British preferences. It's incredibly ill informed to repeat this utter rubbish about "them" imposing things on us without any say. We've always had hugely outsized influence, not least in the shaping of financial regulations which have been lovingly crafted to suit the city of London. Not all of which I'm comfortable with but which are British to the core.

But look elsewhere. From health and safety requirements (this is such a British thing) down to even the introduction of private markets into state industries, British Tory policy lifted direct and implemented such that you see poor old Trenitalia and SNCF split up into infrastructure and train operating companies with open access requirements. Everywhere you look you see evidence of Britain getting the policy it wanted.

Sal Paradise wrote:

Membership does is allow the richer countries to prop up the poorer ones in the longer-term hope that they prosper - not sure that is happening but the theory is good.

The mind boggles if you have somehow been led to believe that there are any examples of poorer countries joining the community and not very quickly seeing improved growth and trade and higher living standards. Ourselves and the republic of Ireland in the 70s to the eastern bloc countries today are vastly different places to before they began to trade with each other and benefit from investment that helped poorer areas lift themselves up (and, of course, build those motorways to more speedily get our goods to their markets).

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:47 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I'm sorry but this is just wrong, spectacularly wrong. Huge chunks of the way the EU operates are down to British involvement, shaped to suit British interests or based on British preferences. It's incredibly ill informed to repeat this utter rubbish about "them" imposing things on us without any say. We've always had hugely outsized influence, not least in the shaping of financial regulations which have been lovingly crafted to suit the city of London. Not all of which I'm comfortable with but which are British to the core.

But look elsewhere. From health and safety requirements (this is such a British thing) down to even the introduction of private markets into state industries, British Tory policy lifted direct and implemented such that you see poor old Trenitalia and SNCF split up into infrastructure and train operating companies with open access requirements. Everywhere you look you see evidence of Britain getting the policy it wanted.

The mind boggles if you have somehow been led to believe that there are any examples of poorer countries joining the community and not very quickly seeing improved growth and trade and higher living standards. Ourselves and the republic of Ireland in the 70s to the eastern bloc countries today are vastly different places to before they began to trade with each other and benefit from investment that helped poorer areas lift themselves up (and, of course, build those motorways to more speedily get our goods to their markets).

He's a Tory, they only pretend that they want people to prosper when, all they really want is self importance and having someone to laud their wealth over.
The Harry Enfield sketch sums up your "average" Conservative "I'm considerably richer than you" - remember to sneer.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:50 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

He's a Tory, they only pretend that they want people to prosper when, all they really want is self importance and having someone to laud their wealth over.
The Harry Enfield sketch sums up your "average" Conservative "I'm considerably richer than you" - remember to sneer.

The difference is some us employ people - contributing is a risky business!! All you want is more CT, more tax of the well paid so we can increase your salary in your cushy little risk-free public sector job - you aren't suggesting you earn less so others can earn more are you!!

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:22 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The difference is some us employ people - contributing is a risky business!! All you want is more CT, more tax of the well paid so we can increase your salary in your cushy little risk-free public sector job - you aren't suggesting you earn less so others can earn more are you!!

I am actually - I'd be personally worse off, but society would be better off; and since I'm a member of that society, I'm quite happy for that to be the case.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:55 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I am actually - I'd be personally worse off, but society would be better off; and since I'm a member of that society, I'm quite happy for that to be the case.

Altruism alive and kicking - in words at least.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:05 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Altruism alive and kicking - in words at least.

In deeds also - I'm a fully paid up member of the Labour party, and will 100% be voting for them at the GE; and taking disciplinary action against any of my employees who can't provide photographic evidence that they have done the same. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:23 pm  

bren2k wrote:

In deeds also - I'm a fully paid up member of the Labour party, and will 100% be voting for them at the GE; and taking disciplinary action against any of my employees who can't provide photographic evidence that they have done the same. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

Voting for Labour - your cruelty know no bounds

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:59 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The difference is some us employ people - contributing is a risky business!! All you want is more CT, more tax of the well paid so we can increase your salary in your cushy little risk-free public sector job - you aren't suggesting you earn less so others can earn more are you!!

Public sector ?

I run my own business and contribute through vat collections, corporation tax, NI, PAYE.
Plenty of risk, not enough reward but, I have a strong social conscience

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:01 pm  

bren2k wrote:

In deeds also - I'm a fully paid up member of the Labour party, and will 100% be voting for them at the GE; and taking disciplinary action against any of my employees who can't provide photographic evidence that they have done the same. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

I hope your employees all vote Tory, just out of spite from your dictatorship rule.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:46 pm  

RoyBoy29 wrote:

I hope your employees all vote Tory, just out of spite from your dictatorship rule.

I suspect he doesnt employ anyone that's stupid enough to vote for that shower.