Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:30 am  

samwire wrote:

if it's a yes/no answer, then the answer is 'no'. it's that sodding easy. you've already said you don't get chance to explain anything. so why the hell do you want to?

as for the last bit, you're a true conspiracy theorist. or if you're that bothered, wear a disguise.

Are you really suggesting I ask all of my health care professionals to lie in their reports I have to send to ATOS and say I can't walk 20m all of the time and are you really suggesting I commit fraud and pretend to be someone I'm not

You Tories need to make your minds up; either us disabled tell the truth and back it up with medical reports (if we are truly disabled we have nothing to fear, right?) or I tell blantent obvious lies and get Doctors, nurses, physios, surgeons and consultants to do the same just so I can retain a car??????? I must be dreaming

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:25 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

Are you really suggesting I ask all of my health care professionals to lie in their reports I have to send to ATOS and say I can't walk 20m all of the time and are you really suggesting I commit fraud and pretend to be someone I'm not

you have 2 possible choices, yes or no. there is no midway point as you yourself have pointed out. so, you're basically lying whichever one you choose.

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:08 pm  

samwire wrote:

you have 2 possible choices, yes or no. there is no midway point as you yourself have pointed out. so, you're basically lying whichever one you choose.

No she is not, if the question is phrased in such a manner as to make a "no" outcome very difficult to achieve then "yes" is the only answer applicable.

And there is the crux of the matter, the question is phrased in such a manner as to achieve a "yes" answer in a huge proportion of replies, what it doesn't do is take into account any other mitigating circumstances - "Can you occasionally achieve mobility over 20 metres ?" will achieve a "yes" answer from the vast majority of claimants, even those for whom doing that once a month would be a massive achievement.

I don't really understand why you don't see that.

Well I do, but we live in hope.

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:09 pm  

samwire wrote:

you have 2 possible choices, yes or no. there is no midway point as you yourself have pointed out. so, you're basically lying whichever one you choose.

Bingo!! You've finally realised the stupidness of it all!! The majority of the people who are already claiming high rate will now lose it all (with the exception of the permanent wheelchair bound) all because this stupid government don't or won't recognise there is an inbetween in almost all disabilities and illnessess.

Having read back what I've just written, on second thoughts I don't believe this government are stupid, I think they know exactly what they are doing.

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:22 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

No she is not, if the question is phrased in such a manner as to make a "no" outcome very difficult to achieve then "yes" is the only answer applicable.

And there is the crux of the matter, the question is phrased in such a manner as to achieve a "yes" answer in a huge proportion of replies, what it doesn't do is take into account any other mitigating circumstances - "Can you occasionally achieve mobility over 20 metres ?" will achieve a "yes" answer from the vast majority of claimants, even those for whom doing that once a month would be a massive achievement.

I don't really understand why you don't see that.

Well I do, but we live in hope.

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/f60.htm

Activity 2. Moving around.
a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. - Score 0

b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. - Score 4

c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. - Score 8

d. Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. - Score 10

e. Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. - Score 12

f. Cannot, either aided or unaided, (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. - Score 12

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:27 pm  

samwire wrote:

Activity 2. Moving around.
a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. - Score 0

b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. - Score 4

c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. - Score 8

d. Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. - Score 10

e. Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. - Score 12

f. Cannot, either aided or unaided, (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. - Score 12

I don't see any mention of pain / discomfort / recovery time required / repeatability etc etc.

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:12 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

I don't see any mention of pain / discomfort / recovery time required / repeatability etc etc.

... use of medication, variation under medication, type of terrain, stairs, etc, etc.

There's no consideration for fluctuation of ability either.

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:36 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

I don't see any mention of pain / discomfort / recovery time required / repeatability etc etc.

JerryChicken wrote:

... use of medication, variation under medication, type of terrain, stairs, etc, etc.

There's no consideration for fluctuation of ability either.

You won't because what Samwire is failing to mention is none of what you have both mentioned are taken into consideration. You are given the option of yes/no. Thats it, no inbetween.

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:18 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

I don't see any mention of pain / discomfort / recovery time required / repeatability etc etc.

*sigh*

For a descriptor to apply you must be able to complete the activity as described in the descriptor:

safely
to an acceptable standard
repeatedly; and
in a reasonable time period.

The term “safely” means in a manner unlikely to cause harm to you or to another person, either during or after completion of the activity

The term “repeatedly” means as often as the activity being assessed is reasonably required to be completed.

When deciding this a decision maker should take into account any pain, breathlessness or tiredness you feel when carrying out an activity.

A decision maker will also take into account any aid or appliance you normally
wear or use or could reasonably be expected to wear or use when assessing your ability to carry out a descriptor.

If you have a fluctuating condition the most appropriate descriptor will be the one which is likely to apply for the greatest proportion of that time.

If you are waiting for further treatment, the descriptor that applies to you will be based on your existing situation rather than based on assumptions about any future improvement in your health.

Re: Cameron reprimanded for false claim on debt : Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:22 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

You won't because what Samwire is failing to mention is none of what you have both mentioned are taken into consideration. You are given the option of yes/no. Thats it, no inbetween.

i'm sorry, but unless the info in the link is utter rubbish, then it isn't just yes/no. you have several choices and you are also able to take into account personal situations. ffs.