Disengenuous uniform. The British Army were hardly likely to open fire on a team of contract cleaners. Misleading haircuts too.

NORAID drying up led to Martin's false epiphany. Long may he rot.

No outpouring of grief, applogies for the millions we killed over the years, remember the crusades, amassing a crowd in India and slaughtering them all, indifferent shooting at cars at checkpoints and squaddies still, to this day, celebrating a kill,mistreating prisoners, urinating on the dead... the list goes on. He is an evil , no doubt, but many have done worse.

Sound like a lot of " military" personnel globally to me. The British armed forces don't have clean hands.

Indeed, but that is, unfortunately, what the military are there to do. But it doesnt make any side right or wrong, most are following orders and, often, against better judgement. I couldn't be in the military, so I respect anyone who is. McG isnt well, but he has worked to change the relationship between the UK and Northern Ireland.. why is it Wales got a better deal...because they had coal and slate?

For McGuiness read Mandella, read Castro all the same - armed struggle to get a seat at the table and then change things their way

Its all over. Interesting that the press are focusing on his later life rather than the former.

I think you mean turn to politics because the armed struggle failed completely.

Nothing he did in his later years could ever forgive what went before. Evil, disgusting man. Some of the acts he participated in and sanctioned beggar belief. Anyone else would have been banged up for life or bumped off. Good riddance. Hopefully his Satan is having some fun with his nether regions right now.



[i"Ding dong the murderer is dead"[/i

Nice eulogy from Tebbit.

[iFormer Tory cabinet minister Norman Tebbit said he hopes Martin McGuinness is “parked in a particularly hot and unpleasant corner of hell for the rest of eternity”.
The peer, whose wife Margaret was paralysed when the IRA bombed a Brighton hotel during the Conservative Party conference, said the world is a “sweeter and cleaner” place now the former deputy first minister is dead.[/i


Wherever McGuinness is, I hope Tebbit joins him for eternity & soon.

Is this the same Cronus who castigated posters on here for celebrating Thatchers death ?

As I wrote on the Guardian comments


He was a better man than me and also a lot of contributors on here. He was certainly a lot more forgiving.

He told John Humphreys of the BBC apparently that it was wrong to celebrate anyone's death ( this was in response to people celebrating Thatchers death). I openly admit I celebrated her death.

So now I can reflect on his humanity and ability to forgive. Maybe I can learn a lot from his life and death about how to be a better person.
RIP Martin McGuinness.

Oh look here's the resident IRA apologist.






My actual words: "mildly amused". Get your facts right lad.


You persist with that dying failure of a "newspaper"? Awful publication and even worse online. Surpassed only by the hilarious Indy.

A mass murderer, guilty (directly and indirectly) of the murder of hundreds of civilians, soldiers and police officers, of detonating bombs in towns and villages across Norn Iron and mainland UK, and of mass organised criminal activity. Of the kidnap, torture and murder of god knows how many. Oh yes, a better man surely. A paragon of virtue. A shining light no less.




That you did, you kept that thread going single-handedly. And posted the longest and most boring poem I've ever not bothered to finish.


Oh cry me a river.



I acknowledge his work later in his life when he realised violence had failed and managed to convince the IRA likewise. But that can NEVER forgive or absolve him of the acts he committed and advocated.

To be fair Maggie died in a November.
Far superior for doing baked spuds in the bonfire at the bottom of the garden.
We had cheese and beans to accompany them, with heaps of cheap red wine.
It was a smashing party.

Talk about a simplistic view. I can understand why some British people may despise McGuiness, especially after decades or one sided media, but certainly without him there would also have been no ceasefire, GFA and subsequent peace in Northern Ireland. That is without doubt. He had the authority and respect to achieve this and managed to bring enough people and the IRA onside. He is still despised by many hard-line Republicans for doing so and is seen as a sell-out. Certainly a more moderate politician, someone like John Hulme, would never have been able to achieve what McGuiness has. I do find it funny though how people can so readily despise McGuiness but then will not understand why so many around the world despise people like Maggie Thatcher or the British Army.

McGuiness took the path he did because of the conditions that existed in Northern Ireland for Catholics at that time in Northern Ireland. This provided the support for the ‘armed struggle’ that you refer to and many others took the same path and\or supported those that did as they felt they had no choice. Catholics lived in squalor, were denied homes with even large families not getting homes before small Protestant families, were being burned out of their homes and they couldn't get jobs. They were discriminated against in every facet of life. For years they had tried peaceful Civil Rights movements and protests and these often resulted in attacks on them and even murder with events like Bloody Sunday. Gerrymandering meant that a democratic route did not exist with even areas that had overwhelming Catholic majorities seeing Catholic councillors being vastly outnumbered by Unionist councillors. State collusion meant that Loyalist murder gangs could kill at will, and the activities of the RUC, B Specials and Army well documented with more and more of this is being revealed on an almost weekly basis. With all this going on many Catholics felt they had no choice and there was simply no other avenue as they had no one else to look after them. It was this environment, and the inaction of the Official IRA, that led to the PIRA even coming into existence and having the support to do so. It is also what led to normal people like McGuiness joining.

Have Catholics got a better deal now than before the troubles? Without doubt. Conditions for Catholics hadn’t improved for 50 or so years before the troubles and are now infinitely better. Catholics are better represented at all levels, notably in the Police and NI Assembly and now have a lot more equal rights with both national identities recognised. The Good Friday Agreement also lays down the foundations for a United Ireland for the first time since partition, if the people on the island of Ireland agree. It’s just a pity that it took Unionists 25 or so years to basically agree and implement what is basically the Sunningdale Agreement with the Good Friday Agreement. If they had done so in 1973, instead of resorting to Loyalist violence and intimidation to bring it down, then they would have saved a great deal of trouble and removed the vast majority of support for the PIRA. Ironically Paisley was the prime mover behind this falling to bits despite him being such an advocate of the GFA when he had a sniff of power.