Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:01 pm  

JD mentioned NHS Direct. Assuming that is the 111 thing it is the most dangerous, useless 'service' imaginable. NEVER use it if somebody you know could potentially in a bad way.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:19 pm  

Dally wrote:

NHS - that period widely accepted as the one that stuffed the NHS in the longer-term - PFI, crazy new GP contracts, interfering and appointing lots of managers. Most of the NHS' current problems date to then. The undoubted short-term improvements have left a longer-term legacy which is wretched.

Devolution for Scotland - is making Labour unelectable nationally. I doubt we with EVER see another majority Labour government in the UK. It has also given a huge boost to the Independence movement.

Climate Change Act - posturing. Nobody in power or business has any will to deal with the matter. If they did the economy would need to contract massively. Businesses just use 'green' as a marketing tool while continuing by there very existence to add to environmental degradation.

The fact that you havent derided the other stuff, I assume, means that you may actually approve of it.
The PFI hospital builds, whilst now known to be the wrong way to solve the problem, did massively improve the fabric of the NHS and as the previous poster suggested, how it is being paid for isn't even a consideration when you go through the doors for treatment.
Compare the list mentioned to the swingeing austerity cuts under the Tories, who then expect us all to be grateful when they START to reverse some of their cuts, while at the same time not admitting that may of these cuts are the very reason for rising knife crime, increased drug use, homelessness etc, etc, etc
The Tories used to love to bang on about being "the party for law and order". Most crimes are not even recorded these days and when you get burgled, there isn't even a plan for catching the perpetrators.
At least it paves the way for tax cuts for the wealthiest in society though, so, it's all good stuff

One thing for sure.
If you have one, then, pray to your god that any youngsters that you know, dont suffer with any mental health issues.
The story in the news this week of the poor university student who took her own life is just the tip of the iceberg.
3 months waiting list for "urgent" cases and feck the rest and if you think that this is acceptable, the Tories are the party for you.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:50 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The fact that you havent derided the other stuff, I assume, means that you may actually approve of it.
The PFI hospital builds, whilst now known to be the wrong way to solve the problem, did massively improve the fabric of the NHS and as the previous poster suggested, how it is being paid for isn't even a consideration when you go through the doors for treatment.
Compare the list mentioned to the swingeing austerity cuts under the Tories, who then expect us all to be grateful when they START to reverse some of their cuts, while at the same time not admitting that may of these cuts are the very reason for rising knife crime, increased drug use, homelessness etc, etc, etc
The Tories used to love to bang on about being "the party for law and order". Most crimes are not even recorded these days and when you get burgled, there isn't even a plan for catching the perpetrators.
At least it paves the way for tax cuts for the wealthiest in society though, so, it's all good stuff

One thing for sure.
If you have one, then, pray to your god that any youngsters that you know, dont suffer with any mental health issues.
The story in the news this week of the poor university student who took her own life is just the tip of the iceberg.
3 months waiting list for "urgent" cases and feck the rest and if you think that this is acceptable, the Tories are the party for you.

Well I for one think the NHS does a great job given the abuse it suffer from its customers. Patients not attending precious appointments, people attending A&E unnecessarily, treatments that shouldn't be undertaken in a public funded organisation. Patients abusing the NHS for their own ends and not looking after themselves e.g. diabetes. Perhaps if we all treated the service with the respect it deserves then there would be more funds available to treat mental illness etc.

You could put the whole GDP of the UK into the NHS and it still wouldn't be enough - so how do you choose your priorities - heart surgery v psychology - oncology v psychiatry etc. Do you turn people away at A&E and let them die so you spend the money on a mental condition - there is only so much money.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:07 pm  

Perhaps inefficient due to its size and complexity but overall a huge force for good that I'm proud of. That statement holds true for both the NHS and the EU.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:05 am  

IR80 wrote:

I ignored the improvements made by Labour under Blurgh and Brown...

Fixed that for you.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:32 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

Fixed that for you.

no, you didn't. All Labour ever do is spend.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:56 am  

tigertot wrote:

Record investment in the NHS, schools and the police.
Introduction of the National Minimum Wage and the New Deal.
Devolution to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
Good Friday Agreement.
Introducing Civil Partnerships, the Equality Act, the Human Rights Act.
Cancelled debt for the world’s poorest countries.
World’s first Climate Change Act.
Allowed stupid people to continue to vote.

50% of the investment in the NHS simply went on increasing the salaries of the people already in post. The lack of real investment by Labour has been a lack of trained doctors and nurses

Minimum wage - a brilliant idea and should be applauded

Devolution - should have included it both ways i.e. why do we have the SNP in Westminster - they have absolutely nothing to do but cause trouble. They don't represent anyone as these people are represented in their own parliament

Good Friday agreement - see minimum wage

Civil partnerships etc - good stuff

Cancelled debt - why lend it in the first place? If you give a drug addict credit - you are not going to get paid, if you lend money to despot to buy mansions in Geneva you aren't getting that back. Perhaps we should be investing closer to home

Climate change - pointless unless you can the real polluters to change behaviour - its like corporation tax whilst ever you have a silo view on global matters your input will be pretty worthless.

Sadly all you lefties who think you know what's best for the rest of us still have a say - stupid people still have a vote

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:08 am  

Dally wrote:

NHS - that period widely accepted as the one that stuffed the NHS in the longer-term - PFI, crazy new GP contracts, interfering and appointing lots of managers. Most of the NHS' current problems date to then. The undoubted short-term improvements have left a longer-term legacy which is wretched.

I can't disagree it was nothing short of financial accounting corruption. But the current position is just as much down to Tory austerity & financial policy.

Devolution for Scotland - is making Labour unelectable nationally. I doubt we with EVER see another majority Labour government in the UK. It has also given a huge boost to the Independence movement.

I don't have any problem with that. I believe self-determination is an inalienable right; I'd be surprised if Leavers objected to that.

Climate Change Act - posturing. Nobody in power or business has any will to deal with the matter. If they did the economy would need to contract massively. Businesses just use 'green' as a marketing tool while continuing by there very existence to add to environmental degradation.

That is complete rubbish. Your last sentence is partially correct, however, any sensible company would use the marketing opportunity. I have worked in SD for over 20 years, with national & international businesses. There has always been an appetite but a worry & ignorance over how to get there. Leeds Climate Commission produced a roadmap of how to achieve zero carbon. The leader of that is an economist; the conclusion is that it can stack up financially, while creating new growth sector jobs. Wind turbine manufacture is growing in some of the most deprived areas of the UK. There has been a huge shift in priority & urgency over the last 12 months, on the back of the IPCC report & Attenborough's Blue Planet.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:31 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Well I for one think the NHS does a great job given the abuse it suffer from its customers. Patients not attending precious appointments, people attending A&E unnecessarily, treatments that shouldn't be undertaken in a public funded organisation. Patients abusing the NHS for their own ends and not looking after themselves e.g. diabetes. Perhaps if we all treated the service with the respect it deserves then there would be more funds available to treat mental illness etc.

You could put the whole GDP of the UK into the NHS and it still wouldn't be enough - so how do you choose your priorities - heart surgery v psychology - oncology v psychiatry etc. Do you turn people away at A&E and let them die so you spend the money on a mental condition - there is only so much money.

Sal, you seem to have deliberately missed the last part of my post.
Like you, my own personal experience of the NHS has been excellent. I think that it's the UK's best "asset" and something that maost of the world truly envies about our country.

However, on Mental Health, it's bloody woeful and desperately short on resource, which believe me, is causing/allowing young people to take their lives due to an abject lack of support for those in crisis.

As I said 3 MONTHS WAITING TIME FOR A REFERAL FOR URGENT CASES, usually people who have talked about or actually attempted suicide and if they go from child to adult (ie turn 18) during treatment, they go to the back of the queue.

This is not being political it's just a statement of fact.

"well it was alright when I grazed my knee" doesnt change the above

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:40 am  

IR80 wrote:

no, you didn't. All Labour ever do is spend.

Wrong.