Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:22 pm  

OKAY, try & keep up with what i propose, indeed proposed to a very senior member ( and former playing colleague of mine ) of the RFL in a conversation at a game a few years ago. My thoughts were inspired by a conversation i had with Tony Anderson, who was in youth development at Halifax RLFC quite a number of years previously & it got me thinking.

A professional RL club may only be permitted to take youngsters from junior clubs or schools within their district boundaries, from an age that competetive RL commences, for arguements' sake 12 years of age. Let's call this part of their development/pathway service area & can only consist of a maximum of 25 kids who will train a maximum of twice a week at their professional club per week & only play one game per week out of school & junior club season, but with a limit of how many games to protect the group & individuals' welfare & progression.

Once the kids reach the age that they can sign professional contracts with their local club, let's say 17 years old, and on minimum wage & capped at the upper end to prevent competition & elitism. All players within the group are not definates for a professional contract, it must be an ongoing assessment with regular documentation of things that are relative such as school reports, fitness & dietry programmes which are set out by the governing body & randomly audited by them.

age groups of u18's or U19's & then beyond that a reserve or senior academy U21's or 22's because of the late developer scenario, with an allowance of let's say two or three first team players in cases of injury comeback etc per fixture.

At no time would a player/youth be permitted to sign for a club outside his district boundaries without the written permission or agreement from the district's senior professional club. In many cases there will be a crop of more than 25 kids worthy of a start at a pro club but let's imagine there are four or five equally talented players where only a single player for a position is used ie; full back or scrum half. This way, the kids with talent may get the opportunity to travel to a neighbouring club, but only if their hometown/district club permits this by not offering them a start.

By the time they come out of the senior academy level ie: 22 years old they then become a free agent & don't require the consent of their hometown club before moving on. This way, the club may have spent 10 years developing the player before rejecting him while the player is experienced within the professional ranks to cope with a move elsewhere.

I believe the nature of producing lads from local clubs would strengthen links with the clubs, therefore the likelihood is that the crowds & sponsorship would be healthier, the lads in return would be qualified to coach the kids & be tied in to adopt a specific age group within their junior or amateur club which they came from, or even assisting in their former school side as part of their development. They would also be qualified as referees at junior level, this would broaden their knowledge & understanding of the game of RL other than simply being tunnel-visioned into being a player, helping to develop their communication skills. They could have spells assisting junior referees, for example, acting as touch judges, again, all for the good of the game generally. I know so many lads who referee because they got injured as a player & didn't want to lose their involvement in the game, but i've also witnessed games called off because no referee's are available or haven't turned up, the grass roots of the game will then benefit from these young players making their way in the pathway/development programmes.

The important thing for me is that the players from all districts will go through their pro club, in areas such as Keighley for example i believe there's only one junior club and one or two open age clubs, compared to Halifax who have many more times that number at both levels so would have a bigger talent pool.
Who's fault is that ?
Would my proposal make the Keighley pro club work harder in the community to provide the next generations of their academies in this instance ?


Food for thought in the Overseas or home grown talent debate.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:31 am  

I like it. Not without its logistical problems - like deciding area boundaries - but in principal, sounds good.

How does it square with employment rights ?

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:08 pm  

faxcar wrote:

Since having 17 Aussies will never happen and having 17 Halifax lads is very unlikely to happen what do we do instead to get the results.

Sign the best players we can afford.

The SL teams will snap up the best young talent and then we just have to either feed off the scraps or sign players ready to do a job. Pretty much what we are doing although that obviously comes down to the coach and how good he is at spotting talent. Jury still out in that regard.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:22 pm  

griff1998 wrote:

I like it. Not without its logistical problems - like deciding area boundaries - but in principal, sounds good.

How does it square with employment rights ?

The boundaries would obviously have to be pre-determined or agreed for example which schools & junior amateur clubs fall within each pro club's feed. If a club wants to identify new areas away from their boundaries they could "adopt" an area, let's say for arguement's sake, Fev Rovers apply adopt Selby, or Let's say Hull could investigate somewhere like Grimsby or other towns further afield but must commit to something mid to long term such as a 5 year continuous period to build within the adopted area.

I wouldn't have a clue about which part of the employment rights you mean, but i'm sure intelligent bods like you & I could wiggle our way through. What do you mean ?

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:22 am  

Everyone has a right to work for whom he wants to work for.

Provided they want him, obviously.

I'm not sure you can tell kids who they've got to sign for any more.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:22 pm  

marillion man wrote:

OKAY, try & keep up with what i propose, indeed proposed to a very senior member ( and former playing colleague of mine ) of the RFL in a conversation at a game a few years ago. My thoughts were inspired by a conversation i had with Tony Anderson, who was in youth development at Halifax RLFC quite a number of years previously & it got me thinking.

A professional RL club may only be permitted to take youngsters from junior clubs or schools within their district boundaries, from an age that competetive RL commences, for arguements' sake 12 years of age. Let's call this part of their development/pathway service area & can only consist of a maximum of 25 kids who will train a maximum of twice a week at their professional club per week & only play one game per week out of school & junior club season, but with a limit of how many games to protect the group & individuals' welfare & progression.

Once the kids reach the age that they can sign professional contracts with their local club, let's say 17 years old, and on minimum wage & capped at the upper end to prevent competition & elitism. All players within the group are not definates for a professional contract, it must be an ongoing assessment with regular documentation of things that are relative such as school reports, fitness & dietry programmes which are set out by the governing body & randomly audited by them.

age groups of u18's or U19's & then beyond that a reserve or senior academy U21's or 22's because of the late developer scenario, with an allowance of let's say two or three first team players in cases of injury comeback etc per fixture.

At no time would a player/youth be permitted to sign for a club outside his district boundaries without the written permission or agreement from the district's senior professional club. In many cases there will be a crop of more than 25 kids worthy of a start at a pro club but let's imagine there are four or five equally talented players where only a single player for a position is used ie; full back or scrum half. This way, the kids with talent may get the opportunity to travel to a neighbouring club, but only if their hometown/district club permits this by not offering them a start.

By the time they come out of the senior academy level ie: 22 years old they then become a free agent & don't require the consent of their hometown club before moving on. This way, the club may have spent 10 years developing the player before rejecting him while the player is experienced within the professional ranks to cope with a move elsewhere.

I believe the nature of producing lads from local clubs would strengthen links with the clubs, therefore the likelihood is that the crowds & sponsorship would be healthier, the lads in return would be qualified to coach the kids & be tied in to adopt a specific age group within their junior or amateur club which they came from, or even assisting in their former school side as part of their development. They would also be qualified as referees at junior level, this would broaden their knowledge & understanding of the game of RL other than simply being tunnel-visioned into being a player, helping to develop their communication skills. They could have spells assisting junior referees, for example, acting as touch judges, again, all for the good of the game generally. I know so many lads who referee because they got injured as a player & didn't want to lose their involvement in the game, but i've also witnessed games called off because no referee's are available or haven't turned up, the grass roots of the game will then benefit from these young players making their way in the pathway/development programmes.

The important thing for me is that the players from all districts will go through their pro club, in areas such as Keighley for example i believe there's only one junior club and one or two open age clubs, compared to Halifax who have many more times that number at both levels so would have a bigger talent pool.
Who's fault is that ?
Would my proposal make the Keighley pro club work harder in the community to provide the next generations of their academies in this instance ?


Food for thought in the Overseas or home grown talent debate.

I like the idea but I think it would be unworkable once you enter the world of employment. When I was a kid there was a similar rule brought into the junior leagues to stop some junior clubs producing super teams by tempting kids from outside their own districts. But once a kid reaches 16 if a club like Wigan came an offered him a contract that was more attractive than was being offered by Fax, I doubt anyone could legally stop him from signing for Wigan. It could probably be seen as a restraint of trade if you told a kid he couldn't ply his trade anywhere but his local club without the permission of the club.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:40 pm  

Agree with this.

Even if you could sign a gifted kid up, maybe spending a lot of money on his coaching for a few years, what's to stop going to Leeds at the end of his contract and you get no transfer fee.

Sure - Fev got a fee variously reported as anywhere between £80000 and £100000 for Zak Hardaker but the fact is that Zak could have had that money himself if he'd moved at the end of his Fev contract.

The world's a different place to what it was 25 years ago.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:53 am  

Having just spent a day with a Queensland Cup team (CQ Capras) Fax or anybody would be very foolish not to look at bringing a player across. The Capras have an 18 year old who will go to Melbourne Storm U20s next year and have 5 or 6 players who have spent some time at NRL clubs. The Capras are hardly the best in this comp. A number of players from Rockhampton (Where the Capras are based) have made the grade at SL and NRL including Damian Gibson. I would recommend Fax maybe look to send a young fringe player out here for a year and get one of the Capras youngsters in return. Jason Hetherington is the coach and is involved wi the Queensland SoO team. For me its something I would look into doing as the benefits are clear to see

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:49 am  

The Lucky Black Cat wrote:

Having just spent a day with a Queensland Cup team (CQ Capras) Fax or anybody would be very foolish not to look at bringing a player across. The Capras have an 18 year old who will go to Melbourne Storm U20s next year and have 5 or 6 players who have spent some time at NRL clubs. The Capras are hardly the best in this comp. A number of players from Rockhampton (Where the Capras are based) have made the grade at SL and NRL including Damian Gibson. I would recommend Fax maybe look to send a young fringe player out here for a year and get one of the Capras youngsters in return. Jason Hetherington is the coach and is involved wi the Queensland SoO team. For me its something I would look into doing as the benefits are clear to see

The trick is to get one with a work permit.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:51 pm  

The Lucky Black Cat wrote:

Having just spent a day with a Queensland Cup team (CQ Capras) Fax or anybody would be very foolish not to look at bringing a player across. The Capras have an 18 year old who will go to Melbourne Storm U20s next year and have 5 or 6 players who have spent some time at NRL clubs. The Capras are hardly the best in this comp. A number of players from Rockhampton (Where the Capras are based) have made the grade at SL and NRL including Damian Gibson. I would recommend Fax maybe look to send a young fringe player out here for a year and get one of the Capras youngsters in return. Jason Hetherington is the coach and is involved wi the Queensland SoO team. For me its something I would look into doing as the benefits are clear to see

Good idea Coops, I nominate our young 'un.