Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 am  

Bubba wrote:

Well history proves that forced expansion has failed with the farce over where Toronto are playing their games the latest shambles.

What's "forced" about this expansion ?

Franchising, or at least scrapping P&R, is apparently coming back. P&R works fine in football and in RU but the instability in employment in RL is a problem? Oh diddums. If it improves the spectacle for the supporters then I am all for it.

Money's not important - until you have to find it. Football awash with money. RU has the same problem as we do.

Nothing wrong with scrums??? Ha, OK then.

So what do you think is wrong with them ?

"Give supporters a greater say in how the game is run - seriously, what experience do they have in running clubs or the game as a whole ?"

That is just typically ignorant of you. First of all, I said give them a say, not give them full control. But there is a huge range of skills and experiences among the supporters on the terraces. In fact, isnt the current HRLFC board made up of people who were supporters prior to joining the board? As was Steele, Pearson, Riley, etc.

Ignorant of me ? Or ingenuous of you ? Keen supporters ? Or folk with a wedge ? You tell me.

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:56 am  

Whats forced about the expansion? Well the fact that an application was made to join the British RL structure before a club even existed. Natural expansion is where a club exists and naturally grows and climbs the league structure.

Football is not awash with money at all levels yet P&R exists at all levels to ensure correct reward, or otherwise, for poor/good performance.

Scrums? I quote "As scrums are now, they may as well make the players form human pyramids. Why not? A rugby league scrum’s only purpose is to gather six players in one part of the field and alternate possession. Blokes get a rest. And that’s it. It’s the Ritual of Handover. To which most thinking people ask, Why have them at all?"

Its irrelevant whether supporters have ' a wedge' or not. You claimed that supporters have no experience in running clubs or the game as a whole. You dont know whether the person stood or sat next to you is CEO of a multi-millionaire business. Even if not; even if they only have £5 in the bank, it doesnt mean they dont have a positive input to offer the future of the game.

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:05 pm  

Whats forced about the expansion? Well the fact that an application was made to join the British RL structure before a club even existed. Natural expansion is where a club exists and naturally grows and climbs the league structure.

I don't agree with your definition of "forced".

Football is not awash with money at all levels yet P&R exists at all levels to ensure correct reward, or otherwise, for poor/good performance.

Several soccer clubs have not been promoted because their off-field arrangements weren't good enough.

Scrums? I quote "As scrums are now, they may as well make the players form human pyramids. Why not? A rugby league scrum’s only purpose is to gather six players in one part of the field and alternate possession. Blokes get a rest. And that’s it. It’s the Ritual of Handover. To which most thinking people ask, Why have them at all?"

A quote from whom ? Not that it matters - it's just an opinion.

Its irrelevant whether supporters have ' a wedge' or not. You claimed that supporters have no experience in running clubs or the game as a whole. You dont know whether the person stood or sat next to you is CEO of a multi-millionaire business. Even if not; even if they only have £5 in the bank, it doesnt mean they dont have a positive input to offer the future of the game.

Sure - Joe Public might have something useful to contribute. If he has, let him step forward. Why hasn't he done so already ? It's not prohibited in the RFL bye-laws. My point is really that changing the CEO won't alter the position one iota.

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:41 pm  

Going a little off thread, scrums , I agree and have lamented the scum as a decisive factor fr a number of years, . They are a joke, why do they use the term hooker any more as there is no chance of the guy challenging for the ball. As I see the act of a scrum now is to keep the big boys out of the way for a bit. Bring back proper scrums and the art of hooking and pushing , the game may open up a bit more for the backs to see the whitewash and the attacking flair of flying wingers as we used to love in days of yore.

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:46 am  

the fax in asia wrote:

Going a little off thread, scrums , I agree and have lamented the scum as a decisive factor fr a number of years, . They are a joke, why do they use the term hooker any more as there is no chance of the guy challenging for the ball. As I see the act of a scrum now is to keep the big boys out of the way for a bit. Bring back proper scrums and the art of hooking and pushing , the game may open up a bit more for the backs to see the whitewash and the attacking flair of flying wingers as we used to love in days of yore.

Keeping big boys tied up has stopped now as most clubs will put one at first receiver and so defences counter with leaving them out. My solution would be to abolish the scrum and reduce the teams to eleven players. This would both open up the pitch (and see a huge increase in handling skills) and reduce the costs to the club of wages (one of the main reasons we now have 13 players). I would also then suggest that we reduce the halves to 35 minutes and also rolling substitutions as and when. Unlikely to happen!!

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:45 pm  

Dbvada. Ok, but why can we not go back to contested scrums? It made the game more interesting. As decent hookers could always strike one against the head. Although saying that has any one seen the union are now feeding into there own, not as garbage as league feeding second row, but the ball is ' not straight ' .
Maybe league could look at a different avenue and something akin to line outs or bounce ups like Aussie rules, it could be game changing !

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:52 pm  

the fax in asia wrote:

Dbvada. Ok, but why can we not go back to contested scrums? It made the game more interesting. As decent hookers could always strike one against the head. Although saying that has any one seen the union are now feeding into there own, not as garbage as league feeding second row, but the ball is ' not straight ' .
Maybe league could look at a different avenue and something akin to line outs or bounce ups like Aussie rules, it could be game changing !

The thing is - why should the team making an error retain possession ?

Did we not learn from the 1966 Challenge Cup Final ? Everybody thought Murphy's tictacs were shiite and we changed the rules. Now you want to go back to that.

You'll want a scrum after every tackle next. (Which, whilst not as quick as the ptb, wasn't as bad as you might think.)

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:29 pm  

Then Griff what is the point of a scrum down, get rid of them altogether and just have hand overs, because at present second row and loose are not even binding , some times even the front row don t bend their backs.
What would you do to restart the game?

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:02 pm  

Bubba wrote: Well hi P&R works fine in football and in RU but the instability in employment in RL is a problem? Are you sure that it works well in Rugby Union? The 2nd League is very much like RL Championship with most clubs part time and unlikely ever to be able to afford to go go FT if they did end up in a Promotion scenario. Crowds are about the same as RL Championship, but the debts seemingly way bigger due to clubs needing more players. This myth that Union is a thriving game with money,is just that- a Myth. The RU Championship is a cause of concern for that sport. Even Yorkshire Carnegie, which is one of the big boys in the Championship, probably cant afford to play in the top League, as can be seen from how they exist since playing at Headingley and being helped out by the Rhinos a few times...This article is 12 months old but things have not changed. http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38650116

Bubba wrote: Well hi P&R works fine in football and in RU but the instability in employment in RL is a problem? Are you sure that it works well in Rugby Union? The 2nd League is very much like RL Championship with most clubs part time and unlikely ever to be able to afford to go go FT if they did end up in a Promotion scenario. Crowds are about the same as RL Championship, but the debts seemingly way bigger due to clubs needing more players. This myth that Union is a thriving game with money,is just that- a Myth. The RU Championship is a cause of concern for that sport. Even Yorkshire Carnegie, which is one of the big boys in the Championship, probably cant afford to play in the top League, as can be seen from how they exist since playing at Headingley and being helped out by the Rhinos a few times...This article is 12 months old but things have not changed. http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38650116

Re: Wood leaving the RFL : Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:13 pm  

The Union Scrum is something that is in danger. Whilst it might serve a purpose it is also a danger spot that has seen many Neck injuries. Sports have had to change things that were major parts of their game. League the Shoulder Charge has gone. Head collisions and brain damage are a topic that many sports fear including Football. The Union Scrum has changed alot to what it was even a couple of years ago. A number of games, even at International level, has seen uncontested Scrums. Doctors have directed aim at the Union Scrum, especially when youngsters are involved. It could well be that in 20 years time the Union and League Scrums will both be non contested.

The League Scrum is just a way of restarting the game and allows the backs to have some space. The fact that often that chance to play with more space is often wasted is another topic for discussion. We do see the odd push but its rare. I think its a good way to restart the game from a Situation and allows something different than just a Play the Ball restart.