Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:02 pm  

griff1998 wrote:

It was a genuine question. The other posters took it at face value - as intended.

It's comparing the cost of producing your own players to the cost of picking them up from other clubs. And bearing in mind that the players you produce may well go elsewhere once you've developed them - at, more than likely - no reward for your club.

Business decision.

What are the cost comparisons?

Lets say your the man making the decision then Griff, which option would you choose.

Produce your own?

Pick them up from other clubs?

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:58 pm  

Having a team of local talent and no overseas players is an ideal that is good for the game in England in the long term but as we live in fast moving times and all professional sport is a results based business sadly its unsustainable. For me I think that Aussie players bring professionalism to our sport and the fact of the matter is we just do not have a big enough pool of players to have enough who are good enough to compete at the top level or even at the top end of the Championship.
I think we need to reconsider our policy of no overseas players as where will we get the next good half back from or hooker? I am saying top qulaity not the best in our league now, lets bring in an overseas player I say!

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:12 am  

should limit amount in SL with no getting around rules to 3 and 1 in champs. bring on uk players as they must be decent with all the aussie clubs now signing up young ones from here.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:15 am  

griff1998 wrote:

It was a genuine question. The other posters took it at face value - as intended.

It's comparing the cost of producing your own players to the cost of picking them up from other clubs. And bearing in mind that the players you produce may well go elsewhere once you've developed them - at, more than likely - no reward for your club.

Business decision.

It wasn't a genuine question, you were having a snide dig, it's not the first occassion you've broached this subject on this forum. Did you consider Tubbs' son Cory's debut in the challenge cup this season worthwhile by comparison ?
Let's look at you a little closer, you're an accountant by day & the easiest way to "make a business decision" or cut running costs is to cut or narrow down the workforce, in this scenario the academy structures.

Answer me this Griff please, Where do you expect the future talent pool to come from within the British Isles ?
If a lad doesn't get a contract before the age of 20, 19 at SL clubs, he's gone. If you can't pick them up until they're 14 years old at scholarship level, that's a maximum of 6 years you've got to develop a kid from being a club junior into a professional, not long enough by a long time.

Look, nobody was prouder than me in 1987 when Halifax won the challenge cup with a squad full of Johnny foreigners but there were British, even local lads in our team that played that day, some of whom I'd played "A" team rugby with only two years previously. But the reason, the main reason we cannot compete internationally is there are too many foreign players in our domestic game. We are no nearer now than we were 30 years ago to beating the Aussies. Take the foreign players out of London & Sheffield may well have beaten them last week.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:36 am  

faxcar wrote:

What are the cost comparisons?

Lets say your the man making the decision then Griff, which option would you choose.

I dunno - that's why I'm asking questions and seeking information.

Halifax look like they've brought a few players through and they're getting their costs paid by the supporters so, to be fair, it looks a no-brainer for them.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:44 am  

marillion man wrote:

It wasn't a genuine question, you were having a snide dig, it's not the first occasion you've broached this subject on this forum.

A snide dig ?

At whom ? Your club for doing something my club is doing ?

Answer me this Griff please, Where do you expect the future talent pool to come from within the British Isles ?

If a lad doesn't get a contract before the age of 20, 19 at SL clubs, he's gone. If you can't pick them up until they're 14 years old at scholarship level, that's a maximum of 6 years you've got to develop a kid from being a club junior into a professional, not long enough by a long time.

I'm first to acknowledge that the development structure isn't right. That's partly because there's no incentive following the collapse of the transfer system. $uperleague clubs are funded to run player development. Championship clubs are not. If you'd read what I posted instead of making your own post up, you'd realize that I'm actually on your side of this argument.

Take the foreign players out of London & Sheffield may well have beaten them last week.

What if you took our foreign players out ?

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:35 am  

Go on then, given the same number of permitted foreigners it'd be more of a level playing field....

SL clubs have a bigger budget and salary cap and still haven't got it right or do you miss that point ? They've found a way of shipping lads out by dual regging them FFS Griff have a think about it.

If you looked into things like "development" of a player, it doesn't just mean on the field of play, or dealing with the media if they get into the senior squad. For example, why get rid of a lad at 19 years old when naturally he will have one or two years physical growth still let alone the supplementary growth that let's say a prop forward requires to compete on the field against opponents & even amongst his own squad mates to get into the playing 17.

The SL clubs got greedy, paid their overseas players too much out of the SKY monies & failed to nurture their own through dedicated programmes. Take a look at attendances, the required gate monies that clubs need to charge to balance their books & the game is shuffling around on it's rear end.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:39 am  

marillion man wrote:

SL clubs have a bigger budget and salary cap and still haven't got it right or do you miss that point ? They've found a way of shipping lads out by dual regging them FFS Griff have a think about it.

If you looked into things like "development" of a player, it doesn't just mean on the field of play, or dealing with the media if they get into the senior squad. For example, why get rid of a lad at 19 years old when naturally he will have one or two years physical growth still let alone the supplementary growth that let's say a prop forward requires to compete on the field against opponents & even amongst his own squad mates to get into the playing 17.

The SL clubs got greedy, paid their overseas players too much out of the SKY monies & failed to nurture their own through dedicated programmes. Take a look at attendances, the required gate monies that clubs need to charge to balance their books & the game is shuffling around on it's rear end.

Couldn't agree more. Absolutely. Unequivocably. Completely.

But it's not the point I was making. It says nothing about whether clubs in our division should run development teams.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:40 pm  

In reply to the original question, I would say it is worth bringing in overseas players but only if they offer something extra to the home grown talent available. It never made sense to me why teams brought over average Aussies in the past, when there were plenty of home grown similar standard players that could have done the same job if not better. The same thing happens now in football, although there are plenty of world class foreigners in the Premier League, there are probably more very average imports.

Just to comment on Halifax's home grown talent in the last few years or lack of it, I think a big problem is the strength of some of our local junior teams such as Park and Siddal compared to that of areas such as Bradford and Huddersfield. Most of the best Calderdale juniors are snapped up by the likes of the above mentioned teams which leaves Fax with the best of the rest scenario ( no disrespect to any of those players or coaches) which means at best you are only going to end up with a handful of lads that are even capable of playing at Championship level. If you are lucky a few filter back down from Super League. For instance Barlow and Ambler are both Halifax lads who I believe were both on the scholarship scheme or Acadamy at Fax in their early days but both signed to SL clubs before coming back to Halifax, in an ideal world both those players, plus many more, would have come all the way through the ranks at Fax into the first team but realistically, and rightly so, the draw of playing SL will always take them away. Until Fax can offer the kids a way into SL then this will always happen.

Re: Overseas or home grown talent? : Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:10 pm  

Taverner wrote:

Just to comment on Halifax's home grown talent in the last few years or lack of it, I think a big problem is the strength of some of our local junior teams such as Park and Siddal compared to that of areas such as Bradford and Huddersfield. Most of the best Calderdale juniors are snapped up by the likes of the above mentioned teams which leaves Fax with the best of the rest scenario ( no disrespect to any of those players or coaches) which means at best you are only going to end up with a handful of lads that are even capable of playing at Championship level. If you are lucky a few filter back down from Super League. For instance Barlow and Ambler are both Halifax lads who I believe were both on the scholarship scheme or Acadamy at Fax in their early days but both signed to SL clubs before coming back to Halifax, in an ideal world both those players, plus many more, would have come all the way through the ranks at Fax into the first team but realistically, and rightly so, the draw of playing SL will always take them away. Until Fax can offer the kids a way into SL then this will always happen.

Agree with this. In effect, you've picked Ambler and Barlow after $uperleague clubs had rejected them Sounds harsh, but that's the way it is.