Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:49 pm  

Howardposner wrote:

I haven't posted on here for a while as there appeared to be quite enough going on and as I am no longer a member of the Board I don't have any "secrets" to pass on! But I wanted to say a few words about finances and plans for 2012 season from a personal perspective as I don't think these type of "Offers" help a club like Fax.

We all know that any club only has a limited number of income generation methods

Funding from an individual or group of individuals (there are pros and cons about having a sugar daddy) but we should not underestimate how important "donations" have been at many stages of the Clubs history and I suspect still are in keeping the club alive - the Supporters Trust have done a marvellous job in this area.
Disquised sponsorship - this is where an individual/Group "hide" their donations behind sponsorship
Pure sponsorship - when the club sell something to someone who believe the price they are paying is commercial
Shared sponsorship - where clubs work together to sell their combined value (league or cup naming rights etc.)
Controlling sponsorship - where the governing body sell "rights" and funds are shared.
Prize money - usually generated as a sub-set of controlling or shared sponsorship
Club direct ancillary sales - everything from shirts, lotteries to match day parking and hospitality
Club indirect ancillary sales - funds generated from use of clubs facilities (hire of ground by third parties etc.)
gate receipts


Given the continued economic environment, the lack of the ability of any championship club to substantively grow it's fan base in the last 10 years ( despite valiant and varied efforts), the increased professionalism of the marketing teams producing limited results we need to accept that whilst we can move forward, and the club can benefit from efforts and donations - and at Fax we have had some extraordinary efforts from people over recent years- the only way to guarantee the security of the club AND deliver year on year a competitive team is for the club to be run by an individual (or small like-minded group) who are prepared to consistently inject funds.

This opens up huge potential risks, but is the model in ALL professional sport. Fiddling around the edges with season ticket offers simply moves the funding gap to somewhere else, or means th club will have less funds to spend on it's biggest cost- players.

I agree with you on this Howard, most people like me will pay the going rate for a season ticket as long as it is not excessive, yer we like a good offer but prefer something like get a Diners package like last year that was a good one.
The clubs hardcore support will pay anyway on the whole, the feel good factor with a winning team brings in more and enthuses more to renew true.
Success will come from a money man, look at FC Halifax Town they are being bankrolled and look what it is doing for them!
Some refuse to accept this but it is a fact in sport, in RL probably only Leeds would be sustainable without a sugar Daddy.

But how do Fax get new season ticket holders???

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:56 pm  

Fax4Life wrote:

But how do Fax get new season ticket holders???

In Previous Years London Skolars have offered a "Six Pack" Ticket, pay upfront for 6 games, and make a small saving, then use at any 6 games, still cheaper to buy a season ticket if you make every game, but generates some funds up front.

Would make a good Xmas present to someone who has an interest and makes the odd game now and then, and these people may then the year later buy a season ticket,

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:58 pm  

Fax4Life wrote:

I agree with you on this Howard, most people like me will pay the going rate for a season ticket as long as it is not excessive, yer we like a good offer but prefer something like get a Diners package like last year that was a good one.
The clubs hardcore support will pay anyway on the whole, the feel good factor with a winning team brings in more and enthuses more to renew true.
Success will come from a money man, look at FC Halifax Town they are being bankrolled and look what it is doing for them!
Some refuse to accept this but it is a fact in sport, in RL probably only Leeds would be sustainable without a sugar Daddy.

But how do Fax get new season ticket holders???

So how do you attract a ' money man ' ? , get more fans , sponsors and ' investors ' want to see commitment from the locality , it tends to work that way

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:00 pm  

Brew wrote:

In Previous Years London Skolars have offered a "Six Pack" Ticket, pay upfront for 6 games, and make a small saving, then use at any 6 games, still cheaper to buy a season ticket if you make every game, but generates some funds up front.

Would make a good Xmas present to someone who has an interest and makes the odd game now and then, and these people may then the year later buy a season ticket,

I have suggested something similar today on the Leigh board , but our problem is having an all ticket stadium , you don't , so not as much of an attraction or neccessesity

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:06 pm  

Starbug wrote:

So how do you attract a ' money man ' ? , get more fans , sponsors and ' investors ' want to see commitment from the locality , it tends to work that way

Maybe but not always take Fev or locally here FC Halifax Town for example or look at teams like QPR or Reading in football, hardly well supported yet they got money men onboard somehow, usually local people who have a passion for their hometown club.

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:08 pm  

I can only see a scheme like Bradford's working in the short term. Ask for 3,000 and if reached, give the discount price band.

HOWEVER - Problem is you permanently mark down your product UNLESS something dramatically alters whereby supporters willingly pay at the original price bracket. eg, £60 for a Championship ticket. Three years later, the club gets promoted to SL - back to £120+

I would suggest that Bradford and Huddersfield are playing an extremely suicidal game with their offers. If Bradford continue to be gash, even the bargain hunters will desert them. Then they'll have 7,000 crowds but only paying £60. Disaster. Getting back to the top of SL would give them more leverage to hike prices but is that likely to happen? Same for Huddersfield. When the Lord takes good Mr Davey what will become of the club's ability to offer massively discounted prices? They'll have to hike them back up in order to plug the gap left by Davey. So, the average Huddersfield fan, having got used to paying ballack all to watch a match will now be asked to stump up three times the price. Netto shoppers will only pay Netto prices.

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:10 pm  

Fax4Life wrote:

Maybe but not always take Fev or locally here FC Halifax Town for example or look at teams like QPR or Reading in football, hardly well supported yet they got money men onboard somehow, usually local people who have a passion for their hometown club.

But usually not rich enough , or clever enough to take the club up to a higher level permanently , usually just a few years , 4/5 usually

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:26 pm  

Starbug wrote:

But usually not rich enough , or clever enough to take the club up to a higher level permanently , usually just a few years , 4/5 usually

But sorry to say I cannot see any club below SL ever getting a very rich man onboard, why would they bother its RL and lower league RL, lets face facts its not football where they can really massage their huge ego.
There is only a few at clubs like Widnes (how much is Steve O'Connor worth?) and Huddersfield (Ken Davy), others have money men but not sure how wealthy they are (Warrington, Salford and Hull KR and I am sure others too).

The daft thing is we run on mostly our own finances (a good lottery well done Mick and Richard) yet this was not good enough for SL, but is surely a better model than relying on a money man in the longer term???
Ask Crusaders Fat Controller Nigel if you don't believe me, their money man went walkies once he saw it would not work in South Wales. So did Richard Branson at London Broncos, now he knows whats best doesn't he!!!
But RL is now tied to money men forever sadly.

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:38 pm  

So as We see , even a succsessful team and cheap tickets isn't working at the Giants , so why not ?

My take on it is they don't provide the whole package , as even with 10,000 in that big stadium , the place is flat , it is a souless bowl of a ground , no standing , no singing , the roof let's all the atmosphere out of it

Compare that to a 4/5,000 crowd at the Shay ?

No comparison , just get them in , make it fun , eventually they will come back , set the target high ,

Re: Next Season for the FAX : Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:26 am  

Do you know what, sometimes reading these threads can be really frustrating, commenting on them starts to feel pointless when you get tunnel visioned, 'my view is right' opinions from people who just don't want debate or suggestion.

I comment on here rarely, having been registered since 2008 under this name and a year before that under another. I post here because its my club, my life when not at work, and dont fully appreciate being called daft for suggestions.

The really 'daft' thing is by posting my initial suggestion, I even knew I would get shot at from some sectors because my idea was different to giving free tickets to schools or selling a ST for 50 quid which is poor business management without a large pot of money to soak up the impact.

As it happens FaxHali, my suggestion was surprisingly in line with most of the other posters including Howard who to be fair knows his onions. The debate was how to market Fax next year, and/or increase crowds. Now then, if you take time to read my post I actually say don't discount season tickets, it isn't commercially viable. All I suggested was targetting real RL fans from clubs who may fancy a day out when their club isn't playing.

I apologise if this offends you, as it appears to have done with Brew too, the thought of having other fans in our ground is clearly alien, I struggle to see the problem. Let me point something out, as stated by lots of posts, we cannot compete with SL clubs on season tickets (or other things for that matter) because the last couple of weeks should show you that the playing field isn't level. Therefore by doing exactly what was suggested by I believe Brew, with reference to London Skolars and season tickets that give you a selection of games for a set price, it might just help build the crowds.

On reflection, I didn't clearly state the number of games a ticket would entitle you to, reading that you believe a Fax fan would, instead of paying say 100-110 quid to our club, travel to a SL club, pay 50-80 quid to them then get a ticket for fax for 30 quid tells me your presumption is the 30 quid ticket is for ALL matches. My fault, even though I did say the SL fans wouldn't be able to attend all the time, maybe a couple of times a year. Why a real fan would do this is beyond me anyway but hey ho.... We could give them 4 or 5 games in a season, I drive past Odsal to get to the Shay, I can only remember two occasions this season when the Bulls were at home when we were. Warrington being one.

We then have the potential of all other West Yorks SL clubs to tap into, both Hull clubs too. We play the best rugby (probably in either divison with the exception of Wire), are pretty successful, our ground is good and have no real competion from other championship clubs to not attract the real fans when at a loose end. How many Cas fans will get up on a sunday when there team are away in France that weekend and think, oh I'll nip down Post Office Road! just look past the emotion of things and think differently. As Howard says, attendances are down over the years, therefore maybe someone needs to address the situation differently without the usual cobblers of freebie tickets to schools and Frankie walking round Asda handing out tickets to the next match.

Oh and one final 'daft' point. I will stop suggesting things I clearly have no knowledge of. I work in an environment where I am solely reponsible and accountable for running a business that turns over 30 million a year in sales, have 119 staff members, 6 supervisors and 4 managers that answer directly to me. Our sector is bucking the trend of the economic climate and one of my KRA's that I am judged on is delivering comp percentage growth in footfall when in competition with rival businesses. Sorry all, rant over, by the way, the suggestion started from a Rhinos fan i work with. He would definatley buy a ticket for 20 or 30 quid and attend when we played Leigh, Fev, Barra, as would a Cas fan too. Daftness over.