Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 10:24 am  

Well it's the morning after and after reflection and reading this thread I think it's time for a wake up call and reality check.
Firstly as regards yesterdays game I thought the team gave it their all in what proved to be a very tight game. Indeed in a previous thread I did say we would have to make those 4's into 6's as it would be very close. It turned out to be that way and we were on the wrong side of the scoreline again. Having kicked goals, I would not and do not, aportion the loss to Ste Tyrer as all kickers have times when things just don't go for them. He will work hard to improve , I am sure, as he strikes me as being that sort of bloke.
The reality was though that Dewsbury simply looked better coached within their pack when it came to offloading in the tackle. We simply don't get quick enough play the balls and never to look to test defences with close contact offloads. This negates Johnstone at times who, Like Thacks, has pace to burn if given the chance and opening in and around the oposition forwards.
Murrell is a class act but he is too slow for 6 and should be in a t 13 regardless of if KH is worried about him getting injured closer to the forwards- he has played SL for goodness sake and is a professional player.
Some class players in other sides we have signed, seem to have gone backwards I'm afraid and that has to lie with ALL the coaching staff who I just think are not good enough to take us to the next level , we all so desperately want us to be at.
The reality is we are at best a top 5 side and nowhere near the top 2 spots.
We also must not fall into the 'what if' trap re if we hadn't lost late on to Batley, if we hadn't drawn at Workington, if we hadn't lost at home to NWC, if Tyrer hadn't hit the posts twice at Dewsbury etc. The stark reality is we are not improving at the same rate as some of those teams around us.
Off the field the BOD seems to me to not want to see Fax in SL as we simply don't have the financial or indeed skill set at the club to back it up I'm afraid.
I listened to KH and Michael Steele at a meeting earlier in the season and it seemed to me they were already making excuses decrying the fact Leigh and Fev were probably breaching the salary cap etc.Whilst they agreed the new structure would open up a pathway to SL for any Championship club there was no loud message from them that it would be Fax.
That approach along with the lack of visibility and leadership from TA (albeit understandable if he is having personal issues) is not helping at all.
We clearly need some younger, more dynamic and 21st century thinking people to drive us onwards and upwards behind the scenes. The good old days have gone -we have to accept that- and we need to break this negative cycle we are rapidly following or we really will be in the #hit.
I have followed Fax to Huyton,Doncaster etc when we couldn't buy a win and been in that Cawoods crowd when we were the first professional team to lose to an amateur team in a cup competition-and we certainly don't want to be doing that again.
We have chance to turn things round but it's time for the BOD to try reconnect with it's fan base and also ,as custodians of our club, make those tough decisions to move us forward.
I will continue to support the team and the club but it's clear reading some other people's comments on here they won't and that is aconcern that needs to be addressed quickly.
PS Charlie not sure what happened re the Leigh supporter you mentioned but hope everything is OK.

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 10:35 am  

chris_smith wrote:

What so we just accept it....? Look at the history of the club and it is a sleeping giant as are one or two more in our league. However our recent history is more impressive than many of these clubs: SL founder and ever present until 2003 , challenge cup winner within this generation, league champions etc. Admittedly recent history not so illustrious but nevertheless Grand Finals and NRC winners say we've done ok. Crowds were improving andwe had a decent fan base to play with of 2k plus. The only downside was we underachieved at times with arguably the best squad in the league and that was Callands failing along with off field issues and our tendancy to not defend.
KH comes on board and dissects an exciting brand of rugby for his brand of boring rugby and assembles a side who in 3 years loses half its fan base. You seem to think we should just blindly pay £15 without question and put up with this rubbish....? These are hard times and money is tough still for many, blind loyalty is no longer the foregone conclusion it once delivered but value for money and entertainment are now a huge part of the equation. Neither of which I feel we get from the club. I've been through lots in 30 plus years following this club and stood through some dire moments but I've never felt so fed up or disassociated by the club. We seem rudderless and lacking leadership across all levels of the club.
Never has the demise of the club felt so real, change is needed across the whole club but I don't see it happening or realistic sadly.

It's about being realistic today, look at the facts.

We need to accept what Fax are today to keep looking back at what we did in the 80's or being a founder member of SL in 2003 won't help.

Fax are a completely different club in every respect on and off the field and is precisely the point I was making, because of our history we should be too good for the Championship, well clearly were not, fact.

I think the current BOD are doing all they can as it stands today, fact.

I do not think the current BOD (taking on board what GFB has said about money) have such a man, fact.

The more that stop going will contribute to the demise, fact.

For me to keep saying change is needed, knowing the above without a clue how it will be achieved is pointless, fact.

Personally I don't blindly accept anything, I have considered what were we are, where we are and why we are there.

I pay to watch my team knowing what to expect and I don't come away from the game beating myself up or blaming everyone else because we aren't playing like world beaters or another team from another era.

I accept there will be good days and bad days and if and when better times return I will be there, if they don't I will still be there because I enjoy watching rugby league and Fax are the only club I could ever support.

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 10:44 am  

Living The Dream wrote:

Well it's the morning after and after reflection and reading this thread I think it's time for a wake up call and reality check.
Firstly as regards yesterdays game I thought the team gave it their all in what proved to be a very tight game. Indeed in a previous thread I did say we would have to make those 4's into 6's as it would be very close. It turned out to be that way and we were on the wrong side of the scoreline again. Having kicked goals, I would not and do not, aportion the loss to Ste Tyrer as all kickers have times when things just don't go for them. He will work hard to improve , I am sure, as he strikes me as being that sort of bloke.
The reality was though that Dewsbury simply looked better coached within their pack when it came to offloading in the tackle. We simply don't get quick enough play the balls and never to look to test defences with close contact offloads. This negates Johnstone at times who, Like Thacks, has pace to burn if given the chance and opening in and around the oposition forwards.
Murrell is a class act but he is too slow for 6 and should be in a t 13 regardless of if KH is worried about him getting injured closer to the forwards- he has played SL for goodness sake and is a professional player.
Some class players in other sides we have signed, seem to have gone backwards I'm afraid and that has to lie with ALL the coaching staff who I just think are not good enough to take us to the next level , we all so desperately want us to be at.
The reality is we are at best a top 5 side and nowhere near the top 2 spots.
We also must not fall into the 'what if' trap re if we hadn't lost late on to Batley, if we hadn't drawn at Workington, if we hadn't lost at home to NWC, if Tyrer hadn't hit the posts twice at Dewsbury etc. The stark reality is we are not improving at the same rate as some of those teams around us.
Off the field the BOD seems to me to not want to see Fax in SL as we simply don't have the financial or indeed skill set at the club to back it up I'm afraid.
I listened to KH and Michael Steele at a meeting earlier in the season and it seemed to me they were already making excuses decrying the fact Leigh and Fev were probably breaching the salary cap etc.Whilst they agreed the new structure would open up a pathway to SL for any Championship club there was no loud message from them that it would be Fax.
That approach along with the lack of visibility and leadership from TA (albeit understandable if he is having personal issues) is not helping at all.
We clearly need some younger, more dynamic and 21st century thinking people to drive us onwards and upwards behind the scenes. The good old days have gone -we have to accept that- and we need to break this negative cycle we are rapidly following or we really will be in the #hit.
I have followed Fax to Huyton,Doncaster etc when we couldn't buy a win and been in that Cawoods crowd when we were the first professional team to lose to an amateur team in a cup competition-and we certainly don't want to be doing that again.
We have chance to turn things round but it's time for the BOD to try reconnect with it's fan base and also ,as custodians of our club, make those tough decisions to move us forward.
I will continue to support the team and the club but it's clear reading some other people's comments on here they won't and that is aconcern that needs to be addressed quickly.
PS Charlie not sure what happened re the Leigh supporter you mentioned but hope everything is OK.

Well said.

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 10:49 am  

faxcar wrote:

It's about being realistic today, look at the facts.

We need to accept what Fax are today to keep looking back at what we did in the 80's or being a founder member of SL in 2003 won't help.

Fax are a completely different club in every respect on and off the field and is precisely the point I was making, because of our history we should be too good for the Championship, well clearly were not, fact.

I think the current BOD are doing all they can as it stands today, fact.

I do not think the current BOD (taking on board what GFB has said about a money) have such a man, fact.

The more that stop going will contribute to the demise, fact.

For me to keep saying change is needed, knowing the above without a clue how it will be achieved is pointless, fact.

Personally I don't blindly accept anything, I have considered what were we are, where we are and why we are there.

I pay to watch my team knowing what to expect and I don't come away from the game beating myself up or blaming everyone else because we aren't playing like world beaters or another team from another era.

I accept there will be good days and bad days and if and when better times return I will be there, if they don't I will still be there because I enjoy watching rugby league and Fax are the only club I could ever support.

Surely sport is about winning, nurturing talent, having dreams and doing your best to realise those dreams. It's not amateur where it's people just purely playing for the love of the game? These guys are paid sportsmen lets not forget. If we have no ambition we might as wellpack it in now. When the BOD took over at Fev they had little cash, a small fan base but bags of ambition and look where it got them. People want to invest in success but not in mediocrity and too many seem to be settling for that. If the club settle for mid table watch the crowds disappear. We all should want better irrespective of the current situation. Money helps yes I agree but things can be improved regardless of it. Communication being one. If you aren't open to constructive criticism you are setting yourself up for a BIG fall. Likewise pretending all is ok generally spells disaster.

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 10:57 am  

Remember the club were financially on their backside under Faz. Yet they took the brave decision to part company and bring in Martin Hall who made a huge impact. In my opinion another brave decision needs making and bring in a coach with ambition who wants to make a name for themselves. Daryl Powell when he went to Fev was smirked at, nobody wanted to know him at thetime , Leeds had discarded him many years before. He saw Fev their ambition and saw it as his chance. Remember they were in the league below when he took over and look where he and they are now.......We need to do the same and build again not just Labour on pretending all is ok.

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 11:22 am  

I hardly think considering what and where we are now is pretending everything is okay, in fact the exact opposite.

I am unaware of who knows what the answer is and is it's out of my control.

The only decision for me is what I choose to do to support my club with what is in my control and I have said what it is.

It's vital to have ambition but it has to be realistic and achievable, to have a club promising the world when they know very well it's not going to happen is hardly being ambitious, more like reckless.

As I said some would gamble on change some wouldn't.

On criticism, when we don't know all the facts which bits can be classed as constructive with a real agenda that will be sure to work and which bits are just general across the board statements based on guess work.

Keighley next week and it will be just as tough.

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 12:18 pm  

Only 2 weeks ago KH promised 2nd spot and a grand final appearance. I think we have the team to do it, I do not think we have the coaching staff to do it though. If the rumours are true it seems the BOD bought in to it though.

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 1:18 pm  

If the board had given KH a new three year contract don't you think they would have announced it?

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 1:24 pm  

I think we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. We, like all sports clubs, need investment but don't have the board to do it. Without that investment and improvements all over the club, it is hard to attract high level sponsorship. The board has done a great job until recently but seem to have taken their eye off the ball, particularly after the failure to buy the Shay. There are other, obvious reasons for this too.

I believe we have a great squad but they aren't performing on the field for some reason.

The answers are not obviously forthcoming apart from an oligarch buying us up lock stock and barrel which isn't going to happen. Maybe it is wise to sit back and see what happens to Leigh and Fev, but will we be left behind in the mean time!

Re: Enough is Enough : Mon May 26, 2014 2:22 pm  

Hudd-Shay wrote:

If the board had given KH a new three year contract don't you think they would have announced it?

No I think even they would pick a better time than the current one to announce it.