Re: Silence : Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:16 pm  

freddies wig wrote:

You think Faxcar? Don't mean to offend Mr Abbott or anyone, just saying it as I see it!

Tell me, since the Shay sale didn't come off, what news/advertising/contact with the fans have you seen?

I have nowhere mentioned where I think the club have been honest or dishonest and don't claim to know anything, just an observation is all.

Maybe you can put your vitriol to one side and answer the question I really asked, would you prefer brutal honesty, moral raising spin or complete silence?

Yes I do think so seeing as you are so fond of brutal honesty.

Or is it vitriol when someone else says something you don't like.

An observation based on no knowledge of the subject "you think he only wanted the Shay, is or has used spin".

Last year alone he put £100,000 of his own money into the club which had nothing to do with the sale of the Shay or spin.

He hardly had banner headlines to advertise that fact, maybe he just goes quietly about his business.

He didn't go round wanting hero status but he hardly deserves unfounded accusations as a thank you.

I would rather you keep silent rather than that.

Re: Silence : Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:44 pm  

Fair play Faxcar. I hold my hands up. Mr Abbott has done lots for the club - I appreciate it and have said so on many occasions. Reading it back, my comment about the shay was put across badly, it was more an indication of how things can be interpreted when there is silence from the club - you know, people can put two and two together and make five! You were right to tear me a new one!

I personally feel the club should be banging the drum, not being brutally honest. Paying punters through the gates is what counts now. Look whats happening at Leigh and what's been happening at Featherstone. Just a bit of that would be great'

Re: Silence : Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:16 am  

freddies wig wrote:

Fair play Faxcar. I hold my hands up. Mr Abbott has done lots for the club - I appreciate it and have said so on many occasions. Reading it back, my comment about the shay was put across badly, it was more an indication of how things can be interpreted when there is silence from the club - you know, people can put two and two together and make five! You were right to tear me a new one!

I personally feel the club should be banging the drum, not being brutally honest. Paying punters through the gates is what counts now. Look whats happening at Leigh and what's been happening at Featherstone. Just a bit of that would be great'

It comes down to how you interpret banging the drum or saying things.

Just going on the "Money Talks" apart from the £100,000 grand above.

The club have said the BOD and friends of Fax have invested heavily in the club for this season.

They have said it is their goal to try as hard as they can to finish in the top two.

Backing that up by words and deeds they have recruited many players who have had SL experience and or are among the best available at this level.

It was stated in last weeks RL press they were in negotiations with another player and you can bet he will be of the same standard if they can pull it off.

They knew about Robs issue and quickly moved to fill the gap by getting Tommy from Rovers for the first month, then the second and must have been working hard last week to get him for longer, the fact he played yesterday proves this and if they get a chance will sign him permanently which can only be good for the club.

The supporters trust handed over another £5000 yesterday for the under 20's who are improving week on week and had a big win on the Saturday.

All this is saying plenty and there will be a lot more going on that we do not know about and I don't really know how they could give a running commentary on everything that they are doing to be honest.

The crowds are a real concern and will definitely have a major impact on how much progress we can make, they know this as well as anybody but how can you force people to come?

Those at the game yesterday gave the lads full support from the first minute to the last and it was good to be there and I will be telling everyone who will listen to come on down but then it will be up to them.

It was only last season when ideas thought up and backed by him and the BOD won us the club of the year for innovation but ever since he gets stoned to death because of "The Shay Sale" issue.

In spite of all he has factually done TA and some of his family have been the subject of constant negative remarks ranging from the vile extreme to the odd dig based on speculation and guesswork.

Would we be surprised if he walked away.

I don't want to do or say anything that I know nothing about that could have a part in that happening and I may overreact when I hear or read anything that could be damaging to the club.

Have we not learned anything from the treatment and reaction of a previous owner.

Re: Silence : Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:20 am  

Faxcar, I agree wholeheartedly with all you say, particular when it involves avoiding "doing a Gartland" with Tony. I'm on record here and on social media saying the same.

The title of the thread is silence and you asked about interpreting "banging the drum"

The whole point is interpretation and perception. Do you think Leigh's squad is stronger than ours? - probably not. Do their BOD put as much money in as Halifax's? - probably not. Are their sponsorship deals really that much better than everyone else's? - probably not. Is their coach more experienced than ours? - probably not. But, reading the rugby league press and the RL community buying into Leigh banging their drum, the perception is they are a better club than us. And guess what? Their crowds are rising! The perception of Halifax at the moment, outside of the club, is we can't pay our rent!

We, as fans who engage and make the effort to communicate with the club, know the club BOD do a fantastic job and the club is moving forward but who else does? Are Leigh really that much better than us?

We send a fella to Sydney to see how things are done over there and he disappears and all goes silent. We have, as you say a great squad are playing some great rugby and looking strong. But who else knows?

I don't want to row and think maybe we misunderstood each other and both are coming from the same place! Sorry if I offended you!

Re: Silence : Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:10 pm  

"I don't want to row and think maybe we misunderstood each other and both are coming from the same place! Sorry if I offended you!"

That sums it up Freddie and you did not offend me at all.

I did use the term "mate" in my first post as in just two people strongly expressing their thoughts concerns etc like over a beer.

The challenge ahead is massive and I just hope we can keep everyone on board.

Re: Silence : Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:06 pm  

freddies wig wrote:

Faxcar, I agree wholeheartedly with all you say, particular when it involves avoiding "doing a Gartland" with Tony. I'm on record here and on social media saying the same.

The title of the thread is silence and you asked about interpreting "banging the drum"

The whole point is interpretation and perception. Do you think Leigh's squad is stronger than ours? - probably not. Do their BOD put as much money in as Halifax's? - probably not. Are their sponsorship deals really that much better than everyone else's? - probably not. Is their coach more experienced than ours? - probably not. But, reading the rugby league press and the RL community buying into Leigh banging their drum, the perception is they are a better club than us. And guess what? Their crowds are rising! The perception of Halifax at the moment, outside of the club, is we can't pay our rent!

We, as fans who engage and make the effort to communicate with the club, know the club BOD do a fantastic job and the club is moving forward but who else does? Are Leigh really that much better than us?

We send a fella to Sydney to see how things are done over there and he disappears and all goes silent. We have, as you say a great squad are playing some great rugby and looking strong. But who else knows?

I don't want to row and think maybe we misunderstood each other and both are coming from the same place! Sorry if I offended you!

Are Fax the Carlsberg team of Rugby League Probably NOT .Charlie knows , see ya all on Sunday .

Re: Silence : Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:28 pm  

Faxcar, your earlier post is almost completely irrelivant to the work the club and its directors should be doing, all too often it is the playing side ( player/coach recruitment/paying of contracts ) that is the focus to the detriment of actually looking at the club as a bona fida ' profit making business

Once the coach and any relevant football/rugby/playing Director is given their budget, then essentially the BOD s on pitch job is done, from then on their real work should be starting and that is growing the clubs income streams , be they long term or short term, quite often the reason this doesnt happen is because they ( Directors ) have already over committed to the playing budget and nobody wants to do the ' boring ' business stuff, or pay for it

As I put earlier THE most important decision should be the allocation 1 st and foremost of your marketing budget before you cough up every last penny to the coach for the big prop and fast winger

Then and only then will you as a club start to see progress

Re: Silence : Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:29 pm  

[quote="Starbug"]Faxcar, your earlier post is almost completely irrelivant to the work the club and its directors should be doing, all too often it is the playing side ( player/coach recruitment/paying of contracts ) that is the focus to the detriment of actually looking at the club as a bona fida ' profit making business

Once the coach and any relevant football/rugby/playing Director is given their budget, then essentially the BOD s on pitch job is done, from then on their real work should be starting and that is growing the clubs income streams , be they long term or short term, quite often the reason this doesnt happen is because they ( Directors ) have already over committed to the playing budget and nobody wants to do the ' boring ' business stuff, or pay for it

As I put earlier THE most important decision should be the allocation 1 st and foremost of your marketing budget before you cough up every last penny to the coach for the big prop and fast winger

Then and only then will you as a club start to see progress[/quote.

I think you are missing my point, which was in the context of we don't know everything the BOD are doing behind the scenes concerning marketing so why comment negatively when that is the case, surely better to look at the positives that can be seen.

I wasn't putting forward the "best way forward for a sports team or business".

How do you or anyone else know what the Halifax BOD are doing.
How do you or anyone else know what they have budgeted for or what income streams they are trying to generate. How do you or anyone else know they aren't doing the "real work".
How do you or anyone else know they have "coughed up the last penny".
How do you arrive at the conclusion that a proven businessmen would not be aware of the business side of things and not want to do the "boring business stuff".

I find it difficult as to why or how anyone would want to come to those conclusions.

I also disagree with your " "The" most important statement.

It's too blinkered to what the reality is in the real world away from the "best model way forward for a sports team or business".

Reality is.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE NO JOBS OR ARE ON LOW INCOME AND ARE SKINT, HOW DO YOU MARKET FOR THAT.

Even those that aren't struggling to make ends meet.

Take marketing for example and you target the local population if you haven't got a competitive winning side that is in the hunt for the available prizes at whatever level you are at you can market all you like but people will not come to watch losers and as a consequence your budget will be less.

Less gate receipts, less prize money, less exposure, less of a profile.

Away from the paying public to attract new sponsors, investors or benefactors you need marketing but again you also need a competitive team with a decent stadium and facilities, if you can offer something across the board then the more chance they will like what they see.

There is a lot of competition for their participation, they like the paying public would rather back a winner than a loser.

Re: Silence : Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:41 pm  

Then you are stuffed

[Nat (Rugby_Aholic)]

Re: Silence : Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:35 pm  

My own personal experience is that it all comes down to money and life. I used to stand in a group of 15/20 people. The other week there was only three of us left. We have lost about half due to them getting married and starting families. These are long time Halifax fans not come and go fans. I imagine they are now lost to the club as they simply cant afford to bring the family to the Shay, its going on £80 to bring and feed two adults and two children. I imagine they would consider it if they were watching us being competitive in SL, but who reasonably expects them to pay that money at present? No amount of marketing budget is going to bring them back. And no amount of marketing budget is going to stop people from being put off by the price. I have said it many many times, surely 2.5k at a tenner is better than 1.5k at £18? How many did we get for the "New York" match that was probably the best marketed game in Halifax's modern history, about 3k? I would imagine at a cost of 10k at least in the holiday and advertising.