Attacking Structure : Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:20 pm  

It occurred to me on Sunday that our attack has changed so much in the last couple of years, and out attacking play now more resembles an amateur team than a SL team. The halfbacks have far fewer runners and options. I dont remember Holroyd or Black etc. ever running towards the defence with just one option, they would always have a couple of forwards to hit, and then another halfback or the fullback overlapping or running deeper, with further options outside them (Shad used to score for fun because of that system). I dont want to blame the players for this as it is about the structure which is ultimately up to the coach. If KH cant improve our attack, maybe an option is bring in an attacking coach, to work on our structure and plays.

Just trying to come up with something more productive than, "Rubbish, sack Harrison", opinions?...

Re: Attacking Structure : Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:33 pm  

Halifax1989 wrote:

It occurred to me on Sunday that our attack has changed so much in the last couple of years, and out attacking play now more resembles an amateur team than a SL team. The halfbacks have far fewer runners and options. I dont remember Holroyd or Black etc. ever running towards the defence with just one option, they would always have a couple of forwards to hit, and then another halfback or the fullback overlapping or running deeper, with further options outside them (Shad used to score for fun because of that system). I dont want to blame the players for this as it is about the structure which is ultimately up to the coach. If KH cant improve our attack, maybe an option is bring in an attacking coach, to work on our structure and plays.

Just trying to come up with something more productive than, "Rubbish, sack Harrison", opinions?...

Spot on hence why most people say we are a 'one man rugby team' now. Its sad to see good players like Ben Johnson just pass down the line or take the ball up and hit the line with no chance of getting through cos they have no runners with them (we have only seen that side step at Fev and at home to Swinton).

Re: Attacking Structure : Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:35 pm  

Someone behind me hit the nail on the head on sunday "it didnt take long for us to coach the flair out of Ben Johnson"

Re: Attacking Structure : Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:01 pm  

Halifax1989 wrote:

Someone behind me hit the nail on the head on sunday "it didnt take long for us to coach the flair out of Ben Johnson"

And sadly the only coaching we are seeing is taking away skills rather than adding/improving them.

Re: Attacking Structure : Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:16 pm  

Our attack then was based on players in their prime like Penky and Blacky etc.
Penky could destroy a team on his own.

They would break up the opposition and have them going backwards so much the second and third phase would just follow on and pour through the gaps.

Our impact players probably put the ball down as much as we do now but another chance would soon follow on so it didn't seem to matter as much.

Re: Attacking Structure : Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:33 am  

Halifax1989 wrote:

It occurred to me on Sunday that our attack has changed so much in the last couple of years, and out attacking play now more resembles an amateur team than a SL team. The halfbacks have far fewer runners and options. I dont remember Holroyd or Black etc. ever running towards the defence with just one option, they would always have a couple of forwards to hit, and then another halfback or the fullback overlapping or running deeper, with further options outside them (Shad used to score for fun because of that system). I dont want to blame the players for this as it is about the structure which is ultimately up to the coach. If KH cant improve our attack, maybe an option is bring in an attacking coach, to work on our structure and plays.

Just trying to come up with something more productive than, "Rubbish, sack Harrison", opinions?...

I said pretty much the same thing 3/4 of the way through last season, sadly a change of half backs has changed nothing. There are very few half backs who you could throw into a team and they can take the game by the scruff of the neck despite a lack of structure and options in attack. Andrew Johns and Alfie Langer probably could but even they would struggle to a degree. As I mentioned before, in my opinion, you need to look at how Wigan operate, not just as a first team but as a club. They play the same system all the way from juniors to 1st team, it is a very structured attacking system but because of the number of options the half backs have on each play its also very expansive (just look how many tries their wingers score). Playing this way means whoever comes into the side knows the system and it's much easier to gel with team mates. Many people thought when Tommy Leulileielsieleilei and Brett Finch left that Smith and Green would not be able to be as effective but they just slotted into the system and Wigan went onto do the double. Harrison has to step up here, that's what he is there for.

Re: Attacking Structure : Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:00 pm  

KH didn't get his GB caps by not offloading the ball in tackle,
braking tackles,quick play the balls.If he can't coach what
he was good at how can you expect him to teach half-backs ?

Re: Attacking Structure : Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:37 pm  

mr t hall wrote:

KH didn't get his GB caps by not offloading the ball in tackle,
braking tackles,quick play the balls.If he can't coach what
he was good at how can you expect him to teach half-backs ?

I don't expect him to teach the half back anything. I expect him to set the team up so it plays to a structure which presents the half backs with at least three or four options on every play. It's then the responsibility of the half back to select the right option on each play. A half back playing at this level should already have the ability to do that, if he hasn't why have we brought him in.

I posted this last season after watching some dour performances
"Playing attractive, effective rugby is not difficult, it's all about having multiple options available to the player with the ball. There is nothing wrong with a drop off at even the highest level of the game, as long as it is performed as one of three or four options in the play. For instance if you run a drop off say from first receiver, as a stand alone move, the defensive line has basically two options to defend against, the player dropping under or the player with the ball who may dummy and go himself. This is very easy to defend against especially if you do it over and over again, which Fax seem to do. If you run the same drop off but this time have two extra runners pushing up out side the drop off runner all of a sudden defending becomes much harder as there are now double the options on the table. This causes defences to think twice about shooting in and can also allow you to get the ball wider much easier. You could run this play every time and as long as you keep changing who you give the ball to it still wouldn't be predictable. Fax just don't seem to have any push in support which is why we can end up watching one man rugby quite often. Of course it helps if you have the players who can do this, Shad Royston was a great example of this, very intelligent without the ball always pushing in support and running great lines and always giving the defensive line food for thought. We just don't seem to have anyone like that at the moment, whether that is down to the coaching, the fitness of the players, or the skill level of the players I have no idea, maybe a combination of all three, hard to tell from the outside looking in!"

It seems we have brought in new players but the system has remained. Seems to me like the system needs changing. That's just my opinion nothing more nothing less.

Re: Attacking Structure : Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:24 pm  

mr t hall wrote:

KH didn't get his GB caps by not offloading the ball in tackle,
braking tackles,quick play the balls.If he can't coach what
he was good at how can you expect him to teach half-backs ?

With respect, that might be Lee Greenwood and Rickies brief.

Re: Attacking Structure : Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:31 pm  

It depends on the definition of coaching, some of it will be skills based for the player or players some of it will be system based and that's the area that seems to be lacking.

For experienced players they should already have the skills but any player will have to fit into the system as dictated by the coach.

I think the systems have been too conservative for too long, grinding out the result to get the result all the time is barely acceptable even if you get the win.

When it starts not even doing that your in trouble.

I am sure he knows that and will be looking to fix.

I'm as eager as the next to want to see changes but just support who and what is there at any given time.

Doesn't mean that's the best or right approach and it's good to have strong opinions across the board and people who are prepared to speak up and say it as they see it.

If we play the same way and lose against Sheffield get your tin hats ready !!!!!!!!!!!!