: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:50 pm  

The call went to the video ref so Thaler can't be the one to blame. He asked if there was a knock on in the build up and the video ref deemed Westerman did indeed knock the ball forward. As someone said he didn't attempt to pass the ball at all, the ball came off his hand and went forward then Ferres caught it, ruling knock on. Good game for the cameras again, Wire certainly a side on the up, thought you missed Shifty a lot. The way to beat Warrington is by passing the ball out to the fringes, out there their defence is appalling with players hanging back, others shooting in its just a shambles. every time you moved the ball they looked bamboozled. Top game from Owen and if McGoldrick concentrated on the game more instead of the refs calls and stuff he'd be even better than he already is.

: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:02 pm  

Dave T wrote:

As you stated, the ball clearly went forward (I only watched on TV but called it instantly

...As a forward pass no doubt?

Dave T wrote:

My point saying it was a clear knock on was not to be dismissive, but when you look at it, it hit's his hand, and travels forward, collected by another player, remove the whole debate about whether this is a pass and that has 100% of the characteristics of a knock on.

I think you're missing the point. The thread's not about how we choose to debate 'what was'.. the thread's about how the ref could have possibly been sharp enough to call this particular alleged knock on or not. Especially when he's proved himself to be not particularly 'sharp' over he course of any given full 80 this year.

I'm sure that (broadly speaking) Wire fans will be happy to give Thaler the benefit of this particular doubt (while at the same time calling him blind for numerous other incidents) and Cas fans will refuse to believe that anyone could ever be so insightful after proving himself so inept at spotting the run of the mill decisions during the game's other 79.9 minutes.

Still. Sh*t happens....

Re: disallowed try at the end of the first half : Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:25 pm  

RIGSBY wrote:

unless your warrington..

do you want to explain that?

: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:36 pm  

It is a huge grey area this one for me and I've raised it before, only as it infuriates me how illogical it is.
No-one doubts that the correct decision was made as anyone watching could tell immediately tht the ball went forward from Westy, BUT if a video ref can adjuge that the ball went forward from Westys hand and into Ferres' without touching the floor then surely to God the video ref can make decisions on forward passes.
Also, if it's not a forward pass, but a knock on, is there even such a thing as a forward pass all forward? Surely all forward passes are knock on's. The mind boggles!!

: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:43 pm  

steadygetyerboots-on wrote:

It is a huge grey area this one for me and I've raised it before, only as it infuriates me how illogical it is.
No-one doubts that the correct decision was made as anyone watching could tell immediately tht the ball went forward from Westy, BUT if a video ref can adjuge that the ball went forward from Westys hand and into Ferres' without touching the floor then surely to God the video ref can make decisions on forward passes.
Also, if it's not a forward pass, but a knock on, is there even such a thing as a forward pass all forward? Surely all forward passes are knock on's. The mind boggles!!

A pass is deliberate and a knock on is accidental.

Re: disallowed try at the end of the first half : Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:30 pm  

RIGSBY wrote:

unless your warrington..

Is that why your so good

: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:52 pm  

So Grose but So Good wrote:

A pass is deliberate and a knock on is accidental.

Not strictly true. A knock-on can be deliberate, for example when a player deliberately bats down a ball to stop it reaching an opponent. In these instances the referee should give a penalty for a deliberate knock-on, but when was the last time anyone ever saw that happen?

Back to the original point. I can't see any way in which anyone, except for the most blinkered fan, can claim that Westerman passed or attempted to pass the ball. In order to pass a ball you must first have some form of control over the ball - something Westerman never had. The ball came across him and he put his hand out, it hit his hand and went forward. Knock-on.

: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:33 am  

Thelonius wrote:

Not strictly true. A knock-on can be deliberate, for example when a player deliberately bats down a ball to stop it reaching an opponent. In these instances the referee should give a penalty for a deliberate knock-on, but when was the last time anyone ever saw that happen?

Back to the original point. I can't see any way in which anyone, except for the most blinkered fan, can claim that Westerman passed or attempted to pass the ball. In order to pass a ball you must first have some form of control over the ball - something Westerman never had. The ball came across him and he put his hand out, it hit his hand and went forward. Knock-on.

Are we trying to say that an accidental knock on should be play on? or have I misread this post

Re: disallowed try at the end of the first half : Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:38 am  

RIGSBY wrote:

unless your SAINTS..

Than most of your passes will be Forward anyway..

: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:29 am  

FLYINGPROP wrote:

Are we trying to say that an accidental knock on should be play on? or have I misread this post

I think you missed the point. There is supposedly a difference between an accidental knock-on (resulting in scrum or handover) and a deliberate knock-on (resulting in a penalty). However, although I am sure I have seen many deliberate knock-ons, I have never seen a penalty given for any of them.