: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:47 pm  

Very strange and not good, people losing their jobs is never nice.

: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:17 pm  

mac of cas wrote:

well the franchise came in with lots of games left last year so thats unfair to say really?

Not really. You still finished bottom so would have been relegated, had it not been for the franchise system. It's great that you weren't, don't get me wrong. I love the way Cas play rugby (well, when they decide to play! ). However, if Cas fans are saying Celtic shouldn't have been allowed in when they themselves shouldn't have been either (based on the pre-franchise system), that smacks a bit of hypocrisy don't you think? And does make them look a tad silly, too.

: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:34 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Not really. You still finished bottom so would have been relegated, had it not been for the franchise system. It's great that you weren't, don't get me wrong. I love the way Cas play rugby (well, when they decide to play! ). However, if Cas fans are saying Celtic shouldn't have been allowed in when they themselves shouldn't have been either (based on the pre-franchise system), that smacks a bit of hypocrisy don't you think? And does make them look a tad silly, too.

The problem with this is "Cas Fans". As it happens there are plenty of "Cas Fans" who don't trot out this tripe, and there are plenty of "Other Fans" including, would you believe it, "Saints Fans" who do.

: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:41 pm  

Disco wrote:

The problem with this is "Cas Fans". As it happens there are plenty of "Cas Fans" who don't trot out this tripe, and there are plenty of "Other Fans" including, would you believe it, "Saints Fans" who do.

If you read my first post you will see that I quantified my initial statement. I didn't think I had to a second time because it was already on the thread.

And I'm well aware of Saints fans who do 'trot out this tripe'. I've argued back at them on my own board.

: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:46 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

If you read my first post you will see that I quantified my initial statement. I didn't think I had to a second time because it was already on the thread.

I think it's worth quantifying every time, to be honest. I'd also contend your glib assertion that franchises "saved our asses", but that's another story.

: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:49 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I reckon some Cas fans could do with remembering that the only reason they are in Superleague this season is the franchise system. It saved your asses from another relegation experience so how you can suggest that Fax and all that lot would have been in had it not been for Celtic when you yourselves would have been relegated had it not been for the franchise system, I really don't know.

But you could also equally say we finished bottom as a result of playing youngsters and perservering with the squad that got us up, knowing full-well that those factors would benefit our franchise application in the short-term rather than filling our squad with over-the-hill Aussies and players.

Had there been relegation, the squad would have been much more different. Different factors, different times, different circumstances.

: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:09 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I reckon some Cas fans could do with remembering that the only reason they are in Superleague this season is the franchise system. It saved your asses from another relegation experience so how you can suggest that Fax and all that lot would have been in had it not been for Celtic when you yourselves would have been relegated had it not been for the franchise system, I really don't know.

mmm, this argument could expand many fold for example, if the goons wouldnt have cheated in the way they did with the salary cap then maybe we wouldnt have gone down, if the catalans werent exempt then we wouldnt have gone down, blah blah blah, its water under the bridge now and whats done is done

: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:25 pm  

Disco wrote:

I think it's worth quantifying every time, to be honest. I'd also contend your glib assertion that franchises "saved our asses", but that's another story.

Not really, because it did. You were bottom so you would have automatically been relegated. What's to argue about that? But that wasn't what I was getting at, and I think you know that. My point was simply that bearing in mind your own standing last season - regardless of the ifs and buts of why you were there - SOME of your fans whinging about the Crusaders looks, to the outside world at any rate, very silly given that the franchise system saved your own club from relegation.

You've had the year to build. Celtic should be allowed the same grace. At least they aren't having the extended franchise benefits that Catalans had.

: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:18 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Not really, because it did. You were bottom so you would have automatically been relegated. What's to argue about that? But that wasn't what I was getting at, and I think you know that. My point was simply that bearing in mind your own standing last season - regardless of the ifs and buts of why you were there - SOME of your fans whinging about the Crusaders looks, to the outside world at any rate, very silly given that the franchise system saved your own club from relegation.

You've had the year to build. Celtic should be allowed the same grace. At least they aren't having the extended franchise benefits that Catalans had.

Am I missing the point here?
I know its late and I keep getting poked and told to do some work but....

The Franchises were not announced at the end of the season so to assume our final position would have stayed the same is your opinion only.

Had we not been given a Franchise we would have been forced to fill our team with players for the remainder of the season instead of continuing to blood our much coveted youngsters.

I don't think some of our fans are whinging but having been the team that gave way for Catalan and were edged out by Wigan/Creative accountancy the assistance being given to Celtic would suggest they were not as ready for SL as the RFL were for them to be in and jetisoning the more traditional teams i.e. Widnes.
I am in the traditional camp more than the expansion for expansion sake.

: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:03 am  

Which 3 matches did they win? Will the losing clubs now be trying to get the points back because Crusaders fielded inelligble players?