Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:15 am  

bentleberry wrote:

The better option would be to do what Union used to do and bar the player from ever being registered to play league again in any country. That would make players think twice about if they will switch as they will have no fall back plan to return to league if they don't like union

I agree with the sentiment, but that was back in the time when Union had their "amateur" status.

I can't imagine that professional RL could indefinitely prevent a player's registration nowadays without the employment lawyers and the human rights brigade getting involved and arguing that you're essentially preventing somebody from working.

The issue is potentially massive though. If the RFU has enough resource it could centrally entice all the best RL players to RU by just offering big wages (and no transfer fees) and RL clubs would either have to match inflated wages or concede the player. Given the financial state of many RL clubs it wouldn't be sustainable for them to do this. I would assume too that the RFL doesn't have enough financial resource to take on the central RFU either in support of the RL clubs.

This could have a devastating effect on RL in this country.

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:45 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

If Solomona does go, it would be a smart move for the RFL and NRL to put out a statement that they don't recognise RFU'S registration and that RU players can be immefiately registered then see if anyone wants to put in a decent sized bid for Farrell and Ford with RFL help.

The very least it would do is force the value of those type players up, improve their bargaining position and increase instability in their clubs contracts. If we keep targeting their better players mid contract. Even if only to force their prices up. The RFU'S clubs tune will soon change.

I like it !
IF RL didnt have to pay a transfer fee, each club could go for a Union player as their marquee signing and perhaps in the NRL as wwll (where they have greater spending power). Of course, there would then just be the small issue of players wanting to come to RL, with it's mickey poor International profile

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:55 am  

shinymcshine wrote:

I agree with the sentiment, but that was back in the time when Union had their "amateur" status.

I can't imagine that professional RL could indefinitely prevent a player's registration nowadays without the employment lawyers and the human rights brigade getting involved and arguing that you're essentially preventing somebody from working.

The issue is potentially massive though. If the RFU has enough resource it could centrally entice all the best RL players to RU by just offering big wages (and no transfer fees) and RL clubs would either have to match inflated wages or concede the player. Given the financial state of many RL clubs it wouldn't be sustainable for them to do this. I would assume too that the RFL doesn't have enough financial resource to take on the central RFU either in support of the RL clubs.

This could have a devastating effect on RL in this country.

I'm not sure, employment in a particular job isn't a given human right, they wouldn't be stopping him gaining employment elsewhere, just not for their organisation. The other way to do it would be to value every single player who leaves to join union at £1,500,000. That technically wouldn't stop them being able to return to League, they'd just have to find a club who was willing to place them into team and absorb 80% of the salary cap in a single player

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:57 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I like it !
IF RL didnt have to pay a transfer fee, each club could go for a Union player as their marquee signing and perhaps in the NRL as wwll (where they have greater spending power). Of course, there would then just be the small issue of players wanting to come to RL, with it's mickey poor International profile

The thing is, even if we don't get them. It damages the RFU clubs. We go directly every single England player pool. Offer them all 500k to 1m a year. Even if none of them sign. They are knocking on their clubs door for more money. We probably can't compete in a financial war. We can probably disrupt their market enough to force them in to a truce.

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:06 am  

bentleberry wrote:

The problem with this is our salary cap is less than half of theirs, they will always have more wiggle room than we have. Yes, they may have to pay some of their players a bit more to keep them, but when they can offer a league player double what he earns in RL then the only losers will be league. The better option would be to do what Union used to do and bar the player from ever being registered to play league again in any country. That would make players think twice about if they will switch as they will have no fall back plan to return to league if they don't like union

Our point isn't to outbid them. Our point is to disrupt their market. They may have more money they may have more wiggle room. Make them use it. If George ford is worth 750k a year. Bid 1m and have him knocking on the RFU/clubs door asking for more. Even if he stays with them and with their international game stays for 900k we have cost them 150k a year to keep a player they already had. And we can do the same thing in a years time and go to 1.1m. And Force his wages up again. And a year later. We aren't trying to beat them. Just to create a salary inflation bubble them. If we can't make them pay for taking our players we can try and make them pay to keep theirs.

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:18 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Our point isn't to outbid them. Our point is to disrupt their market. They may have more money they may have more wiggle room. Make them use it. If George ford is worth 750k a year. Bid 1m and have him knocking on the RFU/clubs door asking for more. Even if he stays with them and with their international game stays for 900k we have cost them 150k a year to keep a player they already had. And we can do the same thing in a years time and go to 1.1m. And Force his wages up again. And a year later. We aren't trying to beat them. Just to create a salary inflation bubble them. If we can't make them pay for taking our players we can try and make them pay to keep theirs.

But for that you need clubs who have the available space on their cap or the offer won't be taken seriously, all it would take is one of the RFU clubs to call our bluff and say "go on then, sign for them...", then if the RL club can't do it, we're the ones who look stupid

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:30 am  

I've just had a quick look at the operational rules and there are a couple of ways I can see it working to prevent a player being able to re-register with the RFL after leaving to union;

The RFL can refuse registration if they consider the registration would negatively affect the reputation of the game (C:1:2:1:b:e)

The RFL can refuse registration if the player is subject to any suspension in any professional body (C:1:2:1:h), if the RFL were to give every player a 5 match ban for switching to any other sport then they would be unable to fulfill the terms of their ban so would be unable to be registered on their return

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:31 am  

bentleberry wrote:

But for that you need clubs who have the available space on their cap or the offer won't be taken seriously, all it would take is one of the RFU clubs to call our bluff and say "go on then, sign for them...", then if the RL club can't do it, we're the ones who look stupid

Why wouldn't we allow them to do it?

We would only need to do it a few times to have an inflationary effect. It won't be very long before clever agents of players we haven't even bid for are ringing RU he'd coaches about their RL value being higher than their RU one.

What's the worst case scenario here. We sign a good, high profile rugby player.

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Why wouldn't we allow them to do it?

We would only need to do it a few times to have an inflationary effect. It won't be very long before clever agents of players we haven't even bid for are ringing RU he'd coaches about their RL value being higher than their RU one.

What's the worst case scenario here. We sign a good, high profile rugby player.

Which club currently has £1m of cap space to accommodate a top union player? The more realistic option would be to target the lads who are on the lowest RU wages and get their wages driven up, but then you run the risk of RL clubs paying well over the odds for some fat mess who can't play league. I can't see a scenario where league would win in a battle of players switching codes, so we need to look at ways to retain our current players and prevent them for being able to come back if they do decide to leave. Without a safety net, I don't think many RL players would take the plunge into union

Re: Denny Solomona speculation & implications : Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:45 am  

bentleberry wrote:

Which club currently has £1m of cap space to accommodate a top union player? The more realistic option would be to target the lads who are on the lowest RU wages and get their wages driven up, but then you run the risk of RL clubs paying well over the odds for some fat mess who can't play league. I can't see a scenario where league would win in a battle of players switching codes, so we need to look at ways to retain our current players and prevent them for being able to come back if they do decide to leave. Without a safety net, I don't think many RL players would take the plunge into union

Doesn't matter who has the space. Why fight with one hand tied behind our backs? If we have to make a cap exemption for George ford. Do it. The principle is already in the regulations.

In this scenario the can get Solomona for nothing. So they can get everyone else for nothing. The ban on returning didn't stop RU players moving to RL years ago. It's not going to work for us now.