Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:50 pm  

nick hkr wrote:

Yes it would be better if Cox was able to replace Clint, Taylor was able to replace Vella, Carlisle was able to replace Fisher, Salter to replace Webster...etc but the fact is we'd be bottom of the SL before long as these are not ready to replace them 100%.

Except Cox and Taylor have done well and so totally proved you wrong on that front. Carlile has also played first team for Huddersfield, so the fact remains they ARE ready. It's just that Hull KR choose antipodean and overseas players ahead of them.

If ever you want an example of when a club has pushed through youth with no experience there's no better blueprint than ourselves this season. Clark and Eden have both come through with no first team experience, Walker, Milner, Holmes in their first full seasons etc.

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:00 am  

No they haven't proved me wrong Cox is a great prospect but he would struggle to play at the intensity for a full season. Just look at Watts's first season he was ripping up for 3/4's of the season but towards the end he dropped right off and subsiquently had a below par season even before his car chase incident.

Taylor I believe can become a very good front rower who with more game time will take the place of the departing Aussies in a couple of years. Cox got a bit beat up against Catalans and still has a lot of work to do, as with Sheriff he had a couple of good games then a bit of a dodgy one, he'll still make a quality full back once he gets more game time but he isn't ready to be a first team regular.

If these kids are really good enough then we will have Aussies sat in the stands most weeks. They will prove to this new coach that they are better and then he won't need to go into the market to make sure we are competative in years to come because he'll show faith in them.

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:24 am  

nick hkr wrote:

No they haven't proved me wrong Cox is a great prospect but he would struggle to play at the intensity for a full season. Just look at Watts's first season he was ripping up for 3/4's of the season but towards the end he dropped right off and subsiquently had a below par season even before his car chase incident.

Taylor I believe can become a very good front rower who with more game time will take the place of the departing Aussies in a couple of years. Cox got a bit beat up against Catalans and still has a lot of work to do, as with Sheriff he had a couple of good then a bit of a dodgy one, he'll still make a quality full back once he gets more game time but he isn't ready to be a first team regular.

If these kids are really good enough then we will have Aussies sat in the stands most weeks. They will prove to this new coach that they are better and then he won't need to go into the market to make sure we are competative in years to come because he'll show faith in them.

I dont agree with that look at some of our homegrown players from the last couple of years

milner-played 4 games last year, this year played 19, has looked very good this year, our best starting hooker.

clark- played 18 games in his debut season and has looked like one of our most dangerous players, didnt even have a squad number before the season started, now a big part of our plans and highly sought after.

Arundel- played 8 last year, played 26 sl games this year, more than any other cas player, been called up for the knights squad.

Holmes, thompson, walker (injuries permitting)all have similar stories and eden, davies and massey have a become good squad layers who will lay a bigger art next year. Sl i littered with players that were given a chance then shone with more and more game time and became regulars within a season. For gods sake noble only played tompkins due to injuries, he was kept out by a very average tim smith, look at him now.

Give kids a chance and they will take it, i'm not saying you have to play a team full of kids (though it nearly got us to the cc final) but you dont need to have a team full of aussies, many of whom are pretty average, 5 good overseas players can still bring alot to your team and help bring kids on.

In 2008 we used 12 overseas players and finished bottom, since then we stuck to the rfl giudlines and played less aussies and more kids and we have become a better team!

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:44 pm  

Senior keen on staying in Yorkshire! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 277968.stm I just hope we are not one of the clubs!

Senior keen on staying in Yorkshire! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 277968.stm I just hope we are not one of the clubs!

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:45 pm  

pyeman wrote:

I dont agree with that look at some of our homegrown players from the last couple of years

milner-played 4 games last year, this year played 19, has looked very good this year, our best starting hooker.

clark- played 18 games in his debut season and has looked like one of our most dangerous players, didnt even have a squad number before the season started, now a big part of our plans and highly sought after.

Arundel- played 8 last year, played 26 sl games this year, more than any other cas player, been called up for the knights squad.

Holmes, thompson, walker (injuries permitting)all have similar stories and eden, davies and massey have a become good squad layers who will lay a bigger art next year. Sl i littered with players that were given a chance then shone with more and more game time and became regulars within a season. For gods sake noble only played tompkins due to injuries, he was kept out by a very average tim smith, look at him now.

Give kids a chance and they will take it, i'm not saying you have to play a team full of kids (though it nearly got us to the cc final) but you dont need to have a team full of aussies, many of whom are pretty average, 5 good overseas players can still bring alot to your team and help bring kids on.

In 2008 we used 12 overseas players and finished bottom, since then we stuck to the rfl giudlines and played less aussies and more kids and we have become a better team!

Of the 22 English players if they all out perform the Aussies in training and in games when given their opportunity we will not see much of the antipodeans.

I am going to watch my team, no matter where they come from they still wear the red and white and still have my full support. The only time this comes in to question is when it is the International scene which should be either place of birth or parents place of birth.

It is nice to see local and generally English players coming through and being better than those we employ from overseas however at this moment in time the players we have signed are better than the ones coming through but will aid the development and in years to come teams will not need these players in such numbers.

If the standard is to be set then I think it has to be from the top of the league down. Why do clubs who have been developing youngsters since the dawn of the SL era still need overseas players in their squads? Why a side have just made the GF why do you need to sign a Kiwi to play in a positon your home grown player is more than capable of playing regularly? Hohia has been playing hooker I think this year yet Saints have Roby and have just let Smith go, surely this should get more air time than a club who've had 5yrs to build a youth set-up and bring through youth that were maybe not going to make it all those years ago, yet still abide by the same rules.

If it is such a requirement and a major factor then the RFL just need to adjust the rules again. Make it more appealing to produce your own, help clubs to keep hold of their stars and discount them from the salary cap but put a ruling in place that the money saved on them not being on the salary cap can not go to an overseas player.

Once the RFL adjust the rules and stop the England side picking foreigners to represent our country then clubs will have to work within the rules. But as far as I am aware the SL isn't a competition to see who can produce the most home grown stars, the objective is to win the competition within the rules.

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:24 pm  

nick hkr wrote:

Hohia has been playing hooker I think this year yet Saints have Roby and have just let Smith go, surely this should get more air time than a club who've had 5yrs to build a youth set-up and bring through youth that were maybe not going to make it all those years ago, yet still abide by the same rules.

Massive difference there, Scott Moore is a terrible player and Lance Hohaia is a world cup winning international, Hull KR sign below average plodders and plenty of them, at that. The reason people single out Hull KR is because of the utter ridiculousness of the overseas signings they make too, Rhys Lovegrove for instance because of some loophole he isn't a quota player etc, that's all KR do is find loopholes and exploit them and that's what makes them the brunt of most jokes.

Most of the overseas players at KR are barely Super League level players and would be easily replaceable by recruiting English players instead (who no doubt would cost less too).

nick hkr wrote:

Once the RFL adjust the rules and stop the England side picking foreigners to represent our country then clubs will have to work within the rules. But as far as I am aware the SL isn't a competition to see who can produce the most home grown stars, the objective is to win the competition within the rules.

1. There are no "foreigners" in the England team - there are 22 English BORN players, 1 with an English family and one who is legally under the rules of RL British and in 2 years will be seen in the eyes of the law as British.

2. Actually, it's in the franchise criteria you have to produce your own players and reduce the number of overseas players.

Also, KR could put out this team in a game (overseas players in red):
McDonnell, Hall, Welham, Webster, Hodgson, Green, Dobson, Newton, Withers, O'Hara, Mika, Paea, Galea

That's 10 overseas players out of 13 players and there's still one more (Lovegrove) for the bench!...that is a disgrace.

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:01 pm  

That's going back to the days before the RFL amended the rules so as to supposedly avoid this scenario.

Still, you can't blame Hull KR for taking advantage if the rules allow them to. Its up to the RFL to make the rules more robust and stop this fiasco. The rules say 5 Non-fed trained players and that should be the case with NO exemptions...

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:28 pm  

Well all I can say is that I'm very disappointed at our recruitment drive so far, Griffin and Nash are not going to break any pots and to miss out on Con Mika to Hull KR is very bad, why can we not attract players to Cas? How come Wakey, HKR and Harlequins can, those 3 have certainly signed better than Griffin and Nash, do we think Millward will come back from Oz with anyone decent?

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:35 pm  

barnsley bill wrote:

Well all I can say is that I'm very disappointed at our recruitment drive so far, Griffin and Nash are not going to break any pots and to miss out on Con Mika to Hull KR is very bad, why can we not attract players to Cas? How come Wakey, HKR and Harlequins can, those 3 have certainly signed better than Griffin and Nash, do we think Millward will come back from Oz with anyone decent?

I'd prefer to have your youth filtering through TBH.
My mate at work is a long standing cas fan, I recall him and "all" other cas fans slating TM because you were losing week in and week out.
What he couldn't see was the amount of young players he was blooding, fair enough it was hard work then, but it's stood you in good stead since.
Let's take last season as an example, (although you could use the last few) down at wakey, nowt to play for, team not very good and almost no youth players coming through!!!!
Small clubs such as wakey and cas, need to bring players through as it is our
lifeblood.
Be proud and thankful, i know which scenario I'd prefer!!

Re: Rumours and Signings - All in one Place! : Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:26 pm  

barnsley bill wrote:

Well all I can say is that I'm very disappointed at our recruitment drive so far, Griffin and Nash are not going to break any pots and to miss out on Con Mika to Hull KR is very bad, why can we not attract players to Cas? How come Wakey, HKR and Harlequins can, those 3 have certainly signed better than Griffin and Nash, do we think Millward will come back from Oz with anyone decent?

If Millward does convince anybody to come to Cas i would be pretty sure its an unknown player desperate for a chance, or somebody who has gone off the rails and nobody down under will touch him.

Think the bottom line is we are skint for 2012 and will only have more to spend when we finally wave bye bye to the financial drain that is Mcgoldrick & Hudson and at the end of next season we have more money to play around with.

Our 1st choice 17 would give anybody a game but its when injuries and suspensions kick in that i will panic.

Hope the coach can work some magic and that the strength and conditioning guy can do a great job too with the squad