[Bullseye]

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:22 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Rubbish. Bulls problems have come from a shortage of cash by their own mistakes. Hence "managing your resources better than anyone else" can not be applied to the Bulls.

They were poorly managed, which resulted in their demise. Otherwise they would still have been at the very least challenging.

Well done on missing my point completely.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:52 pm  

I honestly trust GH to keep us competing for trophies as regular as we do now.
The acadamy production line is imo about to get hotter in terms of a 6 and 7 we have L.Briscoe ,S.Ward and if he continues his progress Olli Olds plus IF we keep him Sean Casey may be a dark horse to come through as a 7.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:04 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Well done on missing my point completely.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:08 pm  

if managed correctly its possible and likely success will continue

keep devloping and finding the best talent and recruiting "star" sensibley

i suppose its easier said than done but GH seems to be pretty switched on

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:27 pm  

I think we can compete for as long as the club continue to invest in the academy as they are now.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:44 pm  

We have some exceptional young english backs which will keep us successful for quite a while imo providing we can keep ahold of them, we do not require massive changes even when the likes of Sinfield and Peacock retire as we have youngsters who seem a perfect fit waiting in the wings, aswell as the ability to tempt the top players should we need to due to our success.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:16 pm  

Tony Soprano wrote:

I think we can compete for as long as the club continue to invest in the academy as they are now.

The club cannot solely rely on the academy.
It should form the backbone of the club - GH's avowed aim when he took over - but it has to be supplemented when necessary from outside.
Hall & Hardaker did not come through the academy.
We brought in overseas players such as Lauititi, Poching, Buderus, Delaney, Adamson to name but a few & we went after other clubs star players, Ellis & Peacock for example.
It has to be a mix & match approach.
Something we've excelled at over the past 10 years or so, let's hope it continues.
I don't yet see that replacing Peacock & Sinfield is as nailed on as some on here would have us believe.
I hope I'm wrong.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:36 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Success isn't cyclical. It's a crappy myth peddled by know nowts.

Or maybe it's a theory, rather than a myth, peddled by people who have looked at the 127 year history of the sport and the way that team's successes and failures have, you know, come in cycles.

Success is based on managing your resources better than anyone else, and adding a bit of luck into it

Is another theory. An interesting one. I wouldn't be so crass as to label it a crappy myth but based upon the evidence of the last 127 I'd be interested in you expanding you theory.

As for Leeds, this period will not last forever. So much could change it. Only takes one rotten apple in the dressing room to unsettle the harmony in there. Or a bad choice of the next coach. Or Mr caddick and Mr Hetherington falling out or selling out.

However, our success is not short term and is built on very solid foundations. The club is sound on and off the field and I see no end to our current cycle (or ability to manage resources and add luck) soon. Whilst I am not counting any chickens and nothing is guaranteed it's comforting that legends like Keith Senior can be replaced by legends to be like Kallum Watkins. On the sad day the greatest captain in our sport retires Stevie Ward will be making a name for himself. A legend like Diskin is followed by Liam Hood. So on and so forth.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:44 pm  

Old Feller wrote:

The club cannot solely rely on the academy.
It should form the backbone of the club - GH's avowed aim when he took over - but it has to be supplemented when necessary from outside.
Hall & Hardaker did not come through the academy.
We brought in overseas players such as Lauititi, Poching, Buderus, Delaney, Adamson to name but a few & we went after other clubs star players, Ellis & Peacock for example.
It has to be a mix & match approach.
Something we've excelled at over the past 10 years or so, let's hope it continues.
I don't yet see that replacing Peacock & Sinfield is as nailed on as some on here would have us believe.
I hope I'm wrong.

I agree totally and its a point that is sometimes missed by fans on these forums who like to go on willy measuring contests about who produces the most young players. Wigan's glory years included some players like Edwards, Lydon and Farrell that had come through the Wigan system but they were always playing around guys signed from outside like Hanley, Bell, Offiah, Botica, Andy Gregory, Miles.

Also producing young players has to go hand in hand with the business side being run properly to be able to afford them. It's another myth that if you produce good players through your own system you can put together a top class team on the cheap - if the players are real quality then you can only get a couple of years of them on a pittance wage, if you can't afford to pay the full salary cap then the players will probably leave anyway, even if you make them a good offer, because they don't want to be the one good player earning a good wage in a low table side. Ten years ago Warrington were heavily criticised for filling our side with overseas players, people were saying we should have 'focused on producing our own', and yet 3 man of steel awards in that period were won by Iestyn Harris and Paul Sculthorpe. Similar with Wakefield producing players like Ellis and Westwood and seeing them go on to achieve for other teams. Now Warrington have been on the other side of the fence, picking up guys like Atkins, Myler and Ratchford that are promising young English talent produced at clubs that can't afford them.

Leeds have got access to a huge pool of youngsters but the key advantage that Gary Hetherington has secured through running the club well, is that if the next superstar emerges through Leeds academy its pretty likely he'll spend his whole career with Leeds, Leeds can provide a career of being paid well in a team that will credibly compete for trophies. If the next superstar emerges through Cas, Wakefield, Hull KR academy etc then its a case of them getting 2/3 years out of him then whether he will play his career at Warrington, Leeds or Wigan...

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:52 pm  

Lydon was signed for Wigan from Widnes.