Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:48 pm  

The youth set up alone at Leeds has really helped us succeed. However its all well and good snapping up the best youngsters but I dont think that works. Look at the current Leeds squad and look at the emerging Leeds youngsters. A lot of them are Leeds lads and Leeds fans. What you have then is a youngster with great potential that will bust and gut and run his blood to water for"his" team.

Warrington over the past few years have been signing a lot of good youngsters from around the country, namely by offering wages in excess of what their local clubs were willing to offer. What this breedsin a youngster is greed and I think come the time of blooding some youngsters this could be to the detrement of the Wolves. You need hunger and pride in the squad

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:54 pm  

It's a bit early in the season to be making assumptions, a few years ago I knew
Somebody who early on in the season used to make a fair amount of money
Gambling on the fixed odds.
He claimed that it was several matches into the season that any kind of
Form became apparent.so the bookmakers handicappers were off the pace.
He then cleaned up,later on in the season he said it was difficult to make
Money as the bookies had worked out the form.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:43 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

It's a bit early in the season to be making assumptions, a few years ago I knew
Somebody who early on in the season used to make a fair amount of money
Gambling on the fixed odds.
He claimed that it was several matches into the season that any kind of
Form became apparent.so the bookmakers handicappers were off the pace.
He then cleaned up,later on in the season he said it was difficult to make
Money as the bookies had worked out the form.

We are not making assumptions as to what may or may not happen at this early stage of the season.If you start at the beginning you will see what the OP's question was.It was asked if success was cyclical?

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:12 pm  

if you look at the last few seasons the teams that have had the least disruptions in playing personel have had the greater share of success, its no fluke that leeds and saints first 20 have had only 1-2 changes at most each season with youngsters added further down the squad numbers
how teams like wakey and bradford can hope to find success by signing 15+ new players each season is beyond me, even the best coach in the world cant get patterns ingrained in just a season

leeds are probably just past their best and luck will play a part once the old guard leave but we wont be accused of lacking faith in our youngsters or neglecting areas as we have promising back ups all over the park
theres always a chance tho that some other team gets a similar crop of talented youngsters and we stay just off the top spot

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:16 am  

Stability of a successful side is important, but its a bit chicken and egg - Leeds and Sts have been abale to keep stable sides in part because they are competitive. That means players want to stay and the clubs see no reason for major overhauls of the squad. Had our respective squads not been competitive, there would have been more changes.

The problem for sides seeking to rebuild now is the shortage of available players each year. The top sides are contracting young players for longer and longer terms, and you can't fill a side with good Aussies any more. The mass transfers of player are generally simply lower quality. Widnes are the extreme example - they seemed to have some money to spend but simply weren't able to attract many decent players. In the past they'd probably have been able to sign a couple of older top notch Aussies to keep them competitive, but those days are fading fast.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:04 am  

bewildered wrote:

The youth set up alone at Leeds has really helped us succeed. However its all well and good snapping up the best youngsters but I dont think that works. Look at the current Leeds squad and look at the emerging Leeds youngsters. A lot of them are Leeds lads and Leeds fans. What you have then is a youngster with great potential that will bust and gut and run his blood to water for"his" team.

Warrington over the past few years have been signing a lot of good youngsters from around the country, namely by offering wages in excess of what their local clubs were willing to offer. What this breedsin a youngster is greed and I think come the time of blooding some youngsters this could be to the detrement of the Wolves. You need hunger and pride in the squad

This hunger and pride argument is exaggerated IMO, its really about the quality of players from wherever they come from and the quality of the coaching and set up, all professionals are going to have that hunger and pride, it won't make a difference who they supported as a kid. Look at Jamie Peacock he was a Leeds lad and you can say how much pride etc he's shown in the Leeds shirt, but he also had that pride and hunger when he was at Bradford who were a club he probably hated as a kid.

Also Warrington might not have Warrington lads in the side but we are top of the league now, we finished top last year and we won back to back Challenge Cups the two years before that so we've been doing ok.

Also on the point of hunger and pride last year we had the biggest points difference in SL history which is a meaningless stat in terms of it doesn't win you any trophies but it says that we are pretty ruthless, lots of other great teams have eased off the gas a bit when they were winning a game, but when we got ahead in a game we just turned the screw and ran in tries. A fair portion of our side has been there a while and been on the receiving end of shallackings from other teams while we were mediocre or worse, so now we are good for a change there's a lot of hunger and grim professionalism to rub teams faces in it when we're ahead.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:36 am  

Success IS cyclical, otherwise one team would have dominated since the year dot. There is so much that contributes to a winning mentality. In Leeds case - as much as the players & coaches have contributed to our recent glory - we owe the biggest amount of gratitude to Gary Hetherington. Whilst some CEO's get a bit of success, laud it up as to how great they are, become complacent and end up back at square one (see Mr. Caisley for further info), Hetherington continually, day after day, will not leave any stone un-turned in making Leeds Rugby bigger & better. Will be a tough act to follow.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:41 am  

AJC wrote:

Success IS cyclical.

Is it?

When do Batley win two challenge cups in a row again then?

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:21 am  

Tony Soprano wrote:

AJC wrote:

Success IS cyclical.

Is it?

When do Batley win two challenge cups in a row again then?

This sums it up for me. I think what should be summarised is that continued sucess is not guarunteed, in fact probably the opposite.

Also, small teams don't always necessarily need to settle for mediocrity if managed correctly.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:52 am  

I'm fairly relaxed about where our Club is, and the kind of rugby we're playing. And whilst I don't think anything Man U will attract much support this side of the pennines, I do think its a pretty good comparison.

2004 was brilliant, the best I thought we could ever achieve, and never in my wildest dreams did I think that we would still be top of the pile 8 years later.Sure, other teams have their day in the sun, and that must be good for our sport, but I am a Leeds supporter, and delighted it's my team they all aspire to emulate.

Could it all go tits up? Of course it could.....just look at the pickle Glasgow Rangers have found themselves in. Until it does though...... Happy Days!