Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:03 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

But Wigan had that transfer fee in their pocket which reduced Leeds spending power and increased theirs, which was significant given that Leeds and Wigan were in a bidding war for Offiah.

I agree, however the money wasn't taken from Leeds with the intention of buying Offiah, it helped down the line but that situation developed much later.
I don't think that Leeds having 250k less in the coffers affected the deal either, they still agreed a deal with Widnes it was just offiah changed his mind last minute. Although I'm not sure we could have gone to 440k without the 250k previous form the Hanley Sale bearing in mind the situation with money heomarraging (sp) from the club through the Boston Stand project.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:13 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I agree, however the money wasn't taken from Leeds with the intention of buying Offiah, it helped down the line but that situation developed much later.
I don't think that Leeds having 250k less in the coffers affected the deal either, they still agreed a deal with Widnes it was just offiah changed his mind last minute. Although I'm not sure we could have gone to 440k without the 250k previous form the Hanley Sale bearing in mind the situation with money heomarraging (sp) from the club through the Boston Stand project.

Remember Offiah's words after the CC final "you should have signed me for Leeds, Doug"

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:23 pm  

lionarmour87 wrote:

Remember Offiah's words after the CC final "you should have signed me for Leeds, Doug"

In Offiah's book he said he expected to go to Leeds even up to the day before he signed for Wigan, he'd been on the phone to Doug Laughton and Doug had told him the deal was done and dusted, then Jim Mills called him in and said sign these forms, you've been sold to Wigan. He later found out the Leeds board had been unwilling to go above £370000 so when Wigan came in with £440000 that was that.

Wonder if Leeds would have won the title if Offiah had gone there. He'd have had Craig Innes inside him, and if you had Schofield, Hanley and Offiah that would have been three out of the five outstanding individuals of the era (Edwards and Davies being the others) in one team.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:35 pm  

Cyclical for me is the wrong word, because it suggests things go round in equal measure, and always come straight back round. But this isn't the case.

Teams come and go. Some go and never come back. Some keep coming back often. Some don't really go but linger.

Take the spanish top football division. Real Madrid and barcelona have been a consistent fixture in the trophy cabinet for the last 60 years.

The future isn't written.

Leeds can remain up there for year and years into the future. But they'd need to keep doing all the things they are doing now. Just because history is littered with teams who build strong teams then slowly f*ck it up over time doesn't mean leeds will.

Have faith.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:46 pm  

Take Kevin Sinfield.

How do you replace kevin sinfield?

You can't. That's the mistake many successful teams make, trying to directly replace players.

What you have to make sure is that when kevin sinfield retires, leeds have the same attributes within the team that kevin sinfield brought to the table.

What does sinfield bring?

leadership, reading of the game, place and field kicking, workrate.

Leeds need to make sure the team has personel within the team that can provide this type of attributres in abundance when sinfield retires, to reduce the effect of his loss as much as possible.

If they can manage that, the loss os sinfield isn't going to be the apoocalyptic event some would have you believe, but it will be a huge loss none the less.

You are never just going to have a sinfield clone rolling off the conveyor belt who can provide all those attributes in one.

I saw a post earlier where someone mentioned young players who can potentially bring this attribute that sinfield has, and another one that can bring that attribute. That's exactly how we should look to limit the loss of sinfield.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:57 pm  

That was me WTP and i agree you never "directly" replace like for like where Legends like Sinfield are concerned but i think we've learned a lot as a club since Harris 1st departed which at the time seemed to be catastrophic to many.
I think systems and culture the club in place can keep us going as a major force but with different players bringing their own different qualitys but that all add up to the same attitudes ,quality ,will to learn ,committment and work-rate that gives us our success.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:59 am  

Wilbred T Pricklepop wrote:

I saw a post earlier where someone mentioned young players who can potentially bring this attribute that sinfield has, and another one that can bring that attribute. That's exactly how we should look to limit the loss of sinfield.

I think you have to sign someone who is a leader like that, doesn't have to be in the same position. A lot of young players have talent but it's rare to have those leader characteristics and you can't take a chance.

Back in 2005 when Arsenal sold Patrick Vieira I remember all the Arsenal fans talking about their fantastic youth system and how they had 17 year olds like Fabregas and Song and since then they have brought through a lot of fantastic young players but something has been missing.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:05 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Wonder if Leeds would have won the title if Offiah had gone there. He'd have had Craig Innes inside him, and if you had Schofield, Hanley and Offiah that would have been three out of the five outstanding individuals of the era (Edwards and Davies being the others) in one team.

Not a chance. That team* was so dysfunctional that another large ego and salary wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever.

*I use the term team loosely. It was a collection of talented individuals, none of whome put team before self. A direct opposite to the current Leeds team.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:39 pm  

Having looked back at the old records on rugbyleagueproject.org I have to agree. My memory had been of Leeds being credible challengers to Wigan under Doug Laughton but you were 5th-7th for a few years and the two years you finished second, just before SL started, there was a huge points gap behind Wigan. I guess I am remembering Leeds being in cup finals rather than challenging for the league title.