If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:45 pm  

Genuinely interested in Leeds fans answers as I find it hard to assess Leeds at the moment.

A year ago I would have said Leeds were where say Chelsea are in football, a side going onto a downward part of the cycle, needing to refresh the team and make hard decisions about ageing players. Since then you have won the Grand Final again, won the World Club Challenge again, Ryan Hall came of age as a Test player last winter. As for the start of this season its hard to judge, you've beaten teams that you would have been expected to and lost to Wigan but that was the week before the WCC.

All teams have their peaks and troughs, some will go into a deep trough like Bradford have, I wonder if Leeds will be like Man United in football (sorry to make that analogy on here), United's 'troughs' were when they were 2nd/3rd in the league and had slipped behind Arsenal or later Chelsea, while Fergie refreshed the team.

Do you see Leeds as a team back on an upward trend after a mini-trough? Or still potentially on a slide, but a shallow one?

For what its worth at Warrington I see us flatlining at the top of our recent run of good times, with a trough coming up in 1/2 years when Briers, Morley, Hodgson etc have to be replaced.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:55 pm  

Success isn't cyclical. It's a crappy myth peddled by know nowts.

Success is based on managing your resources better than anyone else, and adding a bit of luck into it.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:56 pm  

Good question – football differs from rugby as you can buy success (look at Chelsea in the past and City)

In today’s rugby world you need stable sound management at the top who develop a productive youth policy. Leeds have that and I can not see it changing. Question is will other sides catch up. Saints are close and that is why they have stayed at the top over the past years

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:59 pm  

We'll be there or there abouts for the next 2 years. 2011 was a truly unique year and a bit of a one off. While the likes of JP, Leuluai etc will no doubt be gone at the end of this year we have strengthened in the interim by adding Darrell Griffin & Richard Moore to cover that in 2013/14 when they themselves will be 34. This will give us time to bring through the kids most notably Brad Singleton and maybe bring Kyle Amor back from Wakey if his progression isn't hampered by injuries.
We have one of the most exiting three quarterlines in many a generation and when they do come of age there won't be many clubs who could host any finer. My main concern is in the half backs. We have the likes of Luke Briscoe and Stevie Ward who can slot in but I think Ward especially will become heir apparent to Kevin Sinfield.
I would like us to see a red hot scrum half waiting in the wings but to answer your question- the future is bright, very bright indeed

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:12 pm  

rodhutch wrote:

Good question – football differs from rugby as you can buy success (look at Chelsea in the past and City)

In today’s rugby world you need stable sound management at the top who develop a productive youth policy. Leeds have that and I can not see it changing. Question is will other sides catch up. Saints are close and that is why they have stayed at the top over the past years

Even with money success follows a cycle. Man City became the richest club in 2008 and they have still not won a Premiership, although they've been on an upward trend. Chelsea got Abramovich's money in 2003, they won some titles, but now they are on a downward spiral. Any team that has success has a core of players that make up the team and give it stability - and those players age together like Chelsea's are doing, and as Leeds will.

Saints went through that a few years ago with a lot of top players retiring between 2008-2010.

For me the mark of a successful club is being able to manage these transition periods whilst still staying competitive, as Saints have been doing getting to these Grand Finals despite not being the team they were.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:30 pm  

I wobbled last year in my faith that the club could sustain its recent success....those doubts have again receded. I am sure mistakes will still be made ( Cross ) but largely the club seems back on track.

The fabulous youth policy means if necessary the club can make a future marquee signing scrum half eg and still remain under the salary cap..... Welcome on board Mr Thurston

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:33 pm  

Yes our players are aging but we are replacing - that is why our youth policy is so important

Hall for Donald
Watkins for Senior
BJB and Hardaker aren't doing that bad - Clarkson is establishing himself.
We have the likes of Hood making it - and there will be more.

I think Sir Kev may be the most difficult for everything else he brings

[Bullseye]

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:53 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Success isn't cyclical. It's a crappy myth peddled by know nowts.

Success is based on managing your resources better than anyone else, and adding a bit of luck into it.

I remember Chris Caisley telling Bulls fans the exact same thing about 8 years ago. It's one thing saying it, but quite another doing it. Once people running the club change anything can happen. Some are good, some aren't, it seems to come in cycles funnily enough.

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:08 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I remember Chris Caisley telling Bulls fans the exact same thing about 8 years ago. It's one thing saying it, but quite another doing it. Once people running the club change anything can happen. Some are good, some aren't, it seems to come in cycles funnily enough.

It does and in the mid 90s we were financially kankered,some of us were brought up on the Myth about the deep leeds pockets,and it came as a shock.The club is being run properly.It does come in cycles yes and there will come a time when we may not win anything for A couple of years,but I will be confident that we will be there or thereabouts.There is a difference between success being cyclical and going into oblivion

Re: If success is cyclical, where are Leeds currently? : Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:20 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I remember Chris Caisley telling Bulls fans the exact same thing about 8 years ago. It's one thing saying it, but quite another doing it. Once people running the club change anything can happen. Some are good, some aren't, it seems to come in cycles funnily enough.

Rubbish. Bulls problems have come from a shortage of cash by their own mistakes. Hence "managing your resources better than anyone else" can not be applied to the Bulls.

They were poorly managed, which resulted in their demise. Otherwise they would still have been at the very least challenging.