Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:31 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

He may not be believed of course. That will depend on whether James Child thought the abuse was directed his way. Michael Weyman at HKR tried to convince the disciplinary that he too was abusing a player rather than the ref but the disciplinary didn't believe him and banned him for abusing the ref. We only know from Zak's statement that James Child was offended by what he heard not whether he thought the abuse was targeted at him.

Do you know what Weyman said at all? I haven't seen it anywhere what words he used, just that it was said to the referree, and proven.

I only ask as you appear content with his 2 match ban.

We know Harkaker didn't say what he said to the ref. Yet you want a 5-8 game ban.

And you say this isn't team related, rather than incident?

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:34 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Do you know what Weyman said at all? I haven't seen it anywhere what words he used, just that it was said to the referree, and proven.

He called the ref an effing c**t (missing letters are 'un'). That's in the judgement on the RFL site. Weyman claimed he said it to an opposition player. Ref claimed he said it to him (ref). Ref was believed. There was no sound track to the incident.

We know Harkaker didn't say what he said to the ref. Yet you want a 5-8 game ban.

I didn't say that. But that is what the sanction is for homophobic abuse of the referee. It's a Grade E to F which is 5 to 8 matches.

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:42 pm  

Fat Boy wrote:

.This now proves that there was no homophobic intent in his comments as we all know Monaghan's sexual orientation... woof!!

Wrong Monaghan brother, unless you know something we don't lol

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:47 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

He called the ref an effing c**t (missing letters are 'un'). That's in the judgement on the RFL site. Weyman claimed he said it to an opposition player. Ref claimed he said it to him (ref). Ref was believed. There was no sound track to the incident.

I didn't say that. But that is what the sanction is for homophobic abuse of the referee. It's a Grade E to F which is 5 to 8 matches.

You're wrong there SaintsFan. Weyman claimed he said it to his own player (Graeme Horne) after Horne called him stupid for giving the penalty away. Horne backed up Weymans claim at the hearing but the panel still chose to believe the ref. I wonder if it Monaghan would support Zac and say that the homophobic comment was aimed at him and if the panel would believe him.

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:02 pm  

Im not sure Hardaker is clarifying he said it Monaghan as opposed to the Ref. Simply that he was saying it MM and thats why he was apologising to him. Its a good apology and doesnt seek to mitigate or deny the hurt or power in the words he used or his mistake in using them. Good on him

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:03 pm  

newgroundb4wakey wrote:

You're wrong there SaintsFan. Weyman claimed he said it to his own player (Graeme Horne) after Horne called him stupid for giving the penalty away. Horne backed up Weymans claim at the hearing but the panel still chose to believe the ref. I wonder if it Monaghan would support Zac and say that the homophobic comment was aimed at him and if the panel would believe him.

My bad. I thought it was an opposition player (I did read the disciplinary page on the RFL site too!). We may find out who does and who doesn't back up Zak once the hearing has been completed. Not sure whether this one will be made public as the routine ones are though.

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:07 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Its a good apology and doesnt seek to mitigate or deny the hurt or power in the words he used or his mistake in using them. Good on him

I disagree, on both points. I think there are two sentences that stop it from being a genuine apology, never mind a good one:

In the heat of the game, I have used an offensive term and I can honestly say I was deeply saddened when I found out after the game how my comment had been perceived.

That is putting the onus upon the other person for perceiving it in a way that caused offence, rather than upon him for saying it in the first place.

Clearly certain words have powerful meanings other than that intended at the time."

So what did he intend to mean by using 'f****** fag' then?

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:12 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I disagree, on both points. I think there are two sentences that stop it from being a genuine apology, never mind a good one:

That is putting the onus upon the other person for perceiving it in a way that caused offence, rather than upon him for saying it in the first place.

So what did he intend to mean by using 'f****** fag' then?

i think he explained how he used it, as an expression of frustration rather than an explicit homophobic insult, the fact he chose to use a homophobic slur was a mistake which he admits. I dont think that then going on to say he was saddened that it had been perceived by some as an explicit homophobic insult saddened him puts the onus on the other person, in context it reads more that he is saddened his actions caused that hurt.

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:17 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

i think he explained how he used it, as an expression of frustration rather than an explicit homophobic insult, the fact he chose to use a homophobic slur was a mistake which he admits. I dont think that then going on to say he was saddened that it had been perceived by some as an explicit homophobic insult saddened him.

But it's a homophobic insult, regardless of how others perceived it, and I'm sure he has numerous other words he could have used to insult someone if he felt he had to but he chose that one. So he should have simply taken full responsibility for what he said without trying to justify it at all or lessen it by calling it 'a mistake'. He knew what he was doing. He knew what fag meant. Heck, it's even specified in the homophobia guide issued by the RFL as a homophobic insult.

A genuine apology would simply be to say sorry for causing offence and he was wrong to use the word.

Re: Zak Hardaker - Statement : Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:26 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

A genuine apology would simply be to say sorry for causing offence and he was wrong to use the word.

Do you have comprehension problems? That's in the statement.