: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:55 am  

finglas wrote:

The reason I used 11 years was to include the last win. If I'd wanted to be negative I would have said once in the last 30 years.

Whilst you point our that Wigan lost to Sheffield in 1998 as a particular game they still won quite a few CC during their period of dominance. My point was that during a period where Leeds have been one of the dominant 2/3 teams their return has been the poorest of the lot and only on par with the likes of Hull and, as you say, Sheffield.

I have no expectation to win any competition any season as that is what I have been used to. I have a hope that we will win trophies and that hope has been fulfilled over the last few years and I hope that we again win the GF this season. That said history will show that during a period of dominance our GF return was very good whereas our CC return was poor.

I think it'd be fair to say though that the "competition" is a lot stronger during our current "golden run".
So whilst it is pretty dissapointing on a personal level it's not a real surprise that we haven't been better in these cup games and plus we lost 2 finals by a total of 3 points!

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:01 am  

rhinoms wrote:

I think it'd be fair to say though that the "competition" is a lot stronger during our current "golden run".
So whilst it is pretty dissapointing on a personal level it's not a real surprise that we haven't been better in these cup games and plus we lost 2 finals by a total of 3 points!

What stronger than during Bradfors run or St Helen's run, IMO not really. There have only been two teams dominating during Leeds's run (Maybe Bradford as well in 2004), Bradford had a strong Leeds and St Helens team during their run. Looking at the tables the other teams haven't really closed the gap to the top teams.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:42 am  

finglas wrote:

St Helens won the GF 3 times in 4 years from 1999 to 2002 and also played in 2 CCF winning one and losing one. During the SL era outside this period they won a further 5 CCF, losing none.

St Helens won the GF 3 times in 5 years from 2001 to 2005 and also played in 2 CCF winning one and losing one. During the SL era outside this period they appeared in a further 3 CCF, winning one.

Leeds won the GF 3 times in 5 years from 2004 to 2008 and also played in 1 CCF which they lost. During the SL era outside this period they won a further 3 CCF, winning one.

As I see it this currently puts us marginally behind Bradford and way behind St Helens although a GF win this year will edge us ahead of Bradford. St Helens is more difficult to decide given the CC record.

Sorry but I don't see that a comparison with St Helens has any relevance to the assertion that the current period has been one of the most successful in Leeds' history. My point was that not only have previous generations of Leeds fans not been so lucky but that some of the attitude on this thread seems to be that, when presented with 3 Championships, some people's preferred reaction is to say "pfft, not won many Cups though have we?" which seems almost perversely negative. I'm a great believer in enjoying what you've got (of which there has been plenty lately in this instance) rather than ignoring it in favour of the stuff you haven't.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:46 am  

G1 wrote:

He used the term "a club of our strength". I thought we were under strength?

The 1st team playing squad is understrength this season and that is widely acknowledged from the Leeds CEO down to humble internet message boards contributors.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:53 am  

tvoc wrote:

The 1st team playing squad is understrength this season and that is widely acknowledged from the Leeds CEO down to humble internet message boards contributors.

He'd better have something up his sleeve to fix it then. We could win the championship this year, as the first 19 are good enough. Outside of that I think we struggle. OUr young lads seem decent when the come into the team, but I don't think they would all be able to step up like the McGuires, Diskins and Burrows of yesteryear did

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:54 am  

finglas wrote:

I also feel the management have done a great job and despite criticisms on here GH must take a lot of the applause for the achievements of the club.

No question that he should be applauded as part of the Leeds successes but that cuts both ways.

leicester_rhino wrote:

He'd better have something up his sleeve to fix it then. We could win the championship this year, as the first 19 are good enough. Outside of that I think we struggle. OUr young lads seem decent when the come into the team

Just out of interest who are you nominating as number nineteen in your squad there, who presumably takes Eastwood's place?

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:07 am  

finglas wrote:

What stronger than during Bradfors run or St Helen's run, IMO not really. There have only been two teams dominating during Leeds's run (Maybe Bradford as well in 2004), Bradford had a strong Leeds and St Helens team during their run. Looking at the tables the other teams haven't really closed the gap to the top teams.

I was actually making the point re-wigans great cup run!!
Where we have been strong and successful we have had a stronger all round comp than wigan did.
Yes saints and bradford have had better cup records but like i said we've lost 2 finals by a total of 3 points plus lok at how "unfancied teams have made cup finals Giants,catalans,hull which indicates the competition is much stronger!

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:14 am  

El Diablo wrote:

Sorry but I don't see that a comparison with St Helens has any relevance to the assertion that the current period has been one of the most successful in Leeds' history. My point was that not only have previous generations of Leeds fans not been so lucky but that some of the attitude on this thread seems to be that, when presented with 3 Championships, some people's preferred reaction is to say "pfft, not won many Cups though have we?" which seems almost perversely negative. I'm a great believer in enjoying what you've got (of which there has been plenty lately in this instance) rather than ignoring it in favour of the stuff you haven't.

I dont think people are been ungratefull for what we got, or been negative.

The issue still remains though of what could have been had we strengthened when it appeared we should have done.

Our own CEO has openly admitted each season that we do not spend the cap total, and always leave space open in case a top player becomes available. That is fully acceptable when you have a squad you are 100% happy with. But the fact like this season that one of its top signings (Eastwood) did not materialize, will always lead to accusations of taking the eye of the ball.

In the last 6 years we seem to have had these opportunities where are dominance could go into another gear and the winning therefore becoming even greater. But for some reason we did not take it, and did not stregthen at the right times.

That is what is a little dissapointing to people. Nobody can complain for what we have been given though.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:16 am  

tvoc wrote:

Just out of interest who are you nominating as number nineteen in your squad there, who presumably takes Eastwood's place?

my 19 senior squad would be:

Webb
Donald
Smith
Senior
Hall
McGuire
Burrow
Leuluai
Buderus
Peacock
Jones-Buchanan
Lauiti'iti
Sinfield

Bailey
Ablett
Kirke
Diskin

Burgess
Gibson

With acadamy backup coming from

Watkins
Jones-Bishop
McShane
Worral
Allan
Manning
Ratu

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:16 am  

leicester_rhino wrote:

my 19 senior squad would be:

Gibson

With acadamy backup coming from

Watkins
Jones-Bishop
McShane
Worral
Allan
Manning
Ratu

Sorry but that still looks like a capable eighteen there to me. Perhaps if we'd seen a bit more of Manning earlier in the season he could have made the top nineteen by the season end and bolster the pack options.

leicester_rhino wrote:

We could win the championship this year, as the first 19 are good enough. Outside of that I think we struggle. OUr young lads seem decent when the come into the team

I agree that we struggle outside the top eighteen which is why I believe the squad is vulnerable to injury absences. They could yet be lucky with injuries overall (and the early CC exit must have helped in that regard), have their best eighteen available at the business end and find a bit of form to successfully defend their title. Fingers crossed eh.

(I still think it would have been a good idea to spend what is permitted under the cap and replace leaving personnel rather than chance an injury light season and an early exit from the Challenge Cup in order to defend the title though.)