Re: Enough is enough : Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:41 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Have you seen Hardaker under the high ball lately - he spends more time shouting at Handley to catch it than actually attempting to catch it himself.

He puts others in a tough position because their approach to the catch is not ideal because Hardaker is in the ideal place and should grow some and catch the thing.

That is nothing to do with the player Sal, I pointed this out previously on here. The instruction from the coach is that all kicks are fielded where possible by the wingers, and the pass put back inside for running centrally upfield, and that where posible Hardaker is the man inside. That is why they get confused on who is taking.

Obviously if the kick is straight at Hardaker, then he takes it, but if you watch he then looks for the winger coming inside him to give the ball to. When in reality he should be running.

[Bullseye]

Re: Enough is enough : Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:05 pm  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

Both were introduced gradually from bench spots plus had an established Sinfield & Dunemann to guide them along with a quality 9 in Disko.

Exactly. Burrow isn't exactly a playmaking scrum half either and McGuire was well into his mid 20s before he became a full fledged playmaker.

Re: Enough is enough : Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:05 pm  

thebloodbath wrote:

But look how McGuire and Burrow seamlessly wove into the team at a young age and how well they performed personally...

Maybe just maybe this is a quality issue.

We had a very rare situation in modern RL in that we had a 13 in Sinfield who could run a game, he didnt take every 5th tackle or organise every play but he knew when to inject himself and kept the team moving around.
This allowed our very young spine of Burrow Mcguire Mathers and to a lesser extent Diskin, to focus purely on creating breaks and scoring tries.

What the team needs now is for Mcguire to do a similar thing to free up Sutcliffe and Hardaker

Re: Enough is enough : Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:24 pm  

When most of you complain that Hardaker does not link up well will you please note that Leeds do not have that style of play unlike Wigan with Tompkin . That is not Hardakers fault or decision . Why he is getting all the stick on here when others are far worse i do not understand . Falloon so far has been garbage and the coaches decision to use Burrow as playmaker at times beggars belief

Re: Enough is enough : Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:30 pm  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

How he got in the team is irrellevant if as he did he was clearly worthy of that spot once in & he showed clearly he has enough to be a 6.
Also he only list that place due to serious injury not loss of form.

Not sure you are correct regarding either of your points.

My understanding of the events of last year was that after Sinfield announced his move to Union he fell out of favour and form which gave Sutty his break at 6 with the high point his good performance in the Saints match.

However after this brief high point he failed to maintain this form when playing at 6 for the following three games in which we lost our way and were beaten by Warrington, drew with Huddersfield and lost to Widnes at which point he was dropped to the bench and Sinfield was recalled at 6 to organise a good victory over Huddersfield in the Cup and Hull KR in SL.

Sutty then played from the bench and at full back a couple of times before his final go at 6 where he was injured mid way through the first half against Hull. During this intervening period others played at halfback with Sinny either at 13 or being kept fresh on the bench.

I think you will find his period of playing at 6 comprised 4 matches on the trot with one win, 2 losses and a draw after which he was dropped to the bench with Sinfield returning successfully to steer us back on track. Hardly proof of his ability to replace Sinfield. Yet it was on these limited performances, and in previous cameos from the subs bench, that you judged Sutty "clearly worthy of his spot once in and he showed clearly he has enough to be a 6" Hmmm.

Well what was clear to me and others then and has been made crystal clear this season is that Sutty does not have what it takes as a pivotal player and game manager. It is unfortunate for him that his return coincided with the injuries and the team loss of form but never the less he has shown he is not the play-maker that Leeds need just now.

Until we find a creative decision maker to play in the halves we will continue to struggle on attack. A fit Mags can provide some of what we need but perhaps not enough and without cover it is too big a risk. At the moment I would play Lilley with Mags at 6 & 7 and if Danny is out injured yet again I would be tempted to give Lilley and Golding a run together. We need to out score the opposition.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:13 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

I think you will find his period of playing at 6 comprised 4 matches on the trot with one win, 2 losses and a draw after which he was dropped to the bench

just having a quick look at the games Sutty started at 6 last year. according to the match reports on the official website (lol accuracy), it was these ones:

Beat Wigan (h)
Beat Catalans (a)
Beat Cas (a)
Beat Wakefield (h)
Beat Saints (a) sinny on bench
Lost Warrington (a) sinny on bench
Drew Huddersfield (a)
Lost Widnes (a)

you choose to focus on the last 4 for some reason, ignoring the fact that with him starting at 6 we beat grand finalists Wigan, Catalans in France, Cas at their place, and play-off semi-finalists Saints at Langtree

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:57 am  

Gotcha wrote:

That is nothing to do with the player Sal, I pointed this out previously on here. The instruction from the coach is that all kicks are fielded where possible by the wingers, and the pass put back inside for running centrally upfield, and that where posible Hardaker is the man inside. That is why they get confused on who is taking.

Obviously if the kick is straight at Hardaker, then he takes it, but if you watch he then looks for the winger coming inside him to give the ball to. When in reality he should be running.

Fair enough - but I think he takes this too literally and balls he should be taking he is expecting the wingers to take which often seems the wrong option. It seems strange that you would want to pass towards your posts so near you own line.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:32 am  

Neruda wrote:

just having a quick look at the games Sutty started at 6 last year. according to the match reports on the official website (lol accuracy), it was these ones:

Beat Wigan (h)
Beat Catalans (a)
Beat Cas (a)
Beat Wakefield (h)
Beat Saints (a) sinny on bench
Lost Warrington (a) sinny on bench
Drew Huddersfield (a)
Lost Widnes (a)

you choose to focus on the last 4 for some reason, ignoring the fact that with him starting at 6 we beat grand finalists Wigan, Catalans in France, Cas at their place, and play-off semi-finalists Saints at Langtree

The focus was on the period when Sinfield was dropped and supposedly kept his place on form until he was injured. From time to time previously he had experienced game time at 6 when Sinfield was not available without ever looking like making the position his own.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:31 am  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

The focus was on the period when Sinfield was dropped and supposedly kept his place on form until he was injured. From time to time previously he had experienced game time at 6 when Sinfield was not available without ever looking like making the position his own.

So you saying because we lost it proves Sutty didn't play well?
He played well in more than 1 game at 6 & you'll also find thst when Sinfield was reintroduced to the team he even played spells at 9 so not as clear cut as you make out either.
Also just because you & "others" say as such it doesnt make it right that he wont be a 6 just like Burrow never been big enough Hall being clueless & Jjb too injury prone all of which were said early in their careers.
If i got it wrong that he played exclusively at 6 till injured fair doos he was still in the 17 week in week out on merit.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:37 am  

I remember Paul McShane having six better games than I have seen Sutcliffe have. Nick Scruton certainly had many better games than six. Ben Jones Bishop again better games in more than six. I mean the list could go on, Simon Worrall had six games where he looked very good, where is he now?

What those six games showed with Sutcliffe, and it was mentioned at the time, is that whilst the going was good and everyone around him playing well he could stand out. When the going got tougher and some of his team mates faltered he was brought down to a level. Something that top players don't allow to happen.