Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:34 pm  

loiner81 wrote:

Or... to do so they'll have to maintain this season's form for the next 7 weeks to give them a good advantage in the play offs and hopefully a home tie in the semis.
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This season's form? As a whole, or the last 6 weeks? The playoffs don't start in 7 weeks. The top 8 league games do.

What's all this 'going back 12 months' malarky.

It's an interesting stat. It's as relevant as referring to the entirety of this season rather than the last month or so.

The squad this season is different to the squad that ran out of steam last season.

Yet it seems to be replicating last season's dip alarmingly.

We've brought in (potentially) one of the best imports in years, we've lost some dead wood and players like Singleton & Sutcliffe are looking a different proposition to last year.

EDIT - Not to mention Stevie Ward, who's been like signing a new player

I'd agree to a degree though Singleton, Sutcliffe and a much lesser extent Ward look to have hit a bit of a wall form wise recently. Of course, if you want to ignore the last 5 or 6 games they haven't, but that would be silly.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:14 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

I keep hearing about "no plan B" and how this is the fault of the coach. IMO it really isn't.

As a coach, you gameplan during the week for what you think the most effective way to beat that particular opposition is. I said earlier in the week that the way to beat Wigan wasn't to continually smash your head against a brick wall down the middle, but to get at them in wider areas. Leeds didn't do that, preferring instead to play with little passes in and around the ruck where Wigan are strongest. Whether that was the gameplan or not only the players and coaching staff know.

When it became apparent that wasn't working, the senior players (in particular the half backs) should be smart enough to change it on the field. Add some width to the game while still retaining an element of structure. Get your runners in the right place at the right time to enable you to hit the likes of Moon and Watkins with early ball to get at Sarginson and Tomkins, for example.

Where Leeds have fallen down on the occasions they've played poorly in recent weeks is that the halves - whichever the combination of Sinfield, McGuire or Sutcliffe it has been - don't seem either willing or able to play what's in front of them. It all seems to degenerate into disorganised, basketball stuff of people throwing offloads everywhere but with no shape or structure to the side. There seems to be a lack of someone vocal and authoritative enough to drag the team by the scruff of the neck into some sort of shape, the role that Sinfield would have had in his prime.

Whether mentally Sinfield still has the speed of thought to be able to see, assess and respond to the game on the fly or it's all just starting to move a bit too quickly for him, I think the need for an organiser to come into the side for 2016 is becoming more apparent. Scott Dureau is out of contract, and were I in Gary Hetherington's shoes I'd be making enquiries as to his future plans.

brilliant post. only thing I would add is surely the coach, sat high up, should see a change of plan is needed and implement it. he is just as culpable as the players

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:26 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

brilliant post. only thing I would add is surely the coach, sat high up, should see a change of plan is needed and implement it. he is just as culpable as the players

There's a limit to what you can do as a coach once the team crosses the line. You've got maybe five minutes at half time to reorganise and reassess the position and make tactical tweaks. You can send messages on to the field during the game, but it still needs the players to put those into action.

At half-time on Saturday, you'd probably sit there and think that Leeds have been on the receiving end of a couple of sucker punches as regards the Burgess and Williams tries. No alarm bells ringing as such.

Where it started to fall apart was in the second half, and with the experience on the field someone should have been able to see that plan A wasn't working and make adjustments on the fly.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:59 pm  

G1 wrote:

This season's form? As a whole, or the last 6 weeks? The playoffs don't start in 7 weeks. The top 8 league games do.

Play offs, super 8s, whatever. You know what I meant. We're aiming for home advantage in the semis/play offs whatever you want to call them.

G1 wrote:

It's an interesting stat. It's as relevant as referring to the entirety of this season rather than the last month or so.

Going back 10 years makes interesting reading too, it's equally as pointless.

G1 wrote:

Yet it seems to be replicating last season's dip alarmingly.

And the year before and the year before that etc etc etc.

G1 wrote:

I'd agree to a degree though Singleton, Sutcliffe and a much lesser extent Ward look to have hit a bit of a wall form wise recently. Of course, if you want to ignore the last 5 or 6 games they haven't, but that would be silly.

Yeah..... except Sutcliffe hasn't played for 3 and was dropped after one quiet game, Singleton hasn't had many minutes and Stevie Ward hasn't really dropped off at all.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:33 pm  

loiner81 wrote:

Play offs, super 8s, whatever. You know what I meant. We're aiming for home advantage in the semis/play offs whatever you want to call them.
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I didn't know whether you were confusing the top 8s with the playoffs. I still don't. We don't get |"home ties" per se in the top 8s. We play some home and some away. We want a home tie in the playoffs but that is much farther than 7 weeks away, which is what you were talking about.

Going back 10 years makes interesting reading too, it's equally as pointless.

We lost to Wigan last week who two weeks previously were beaten by Hull KR who we beat the week after.

I'd argue a bigger frame of reference is a better indicator than short term form.

Yeah..... except Sutcliffe hasn't played for 3 and was dropped after one quiet game, Singleton hasn't had many minutes and Stevie Ward hasn't really dropped off at all.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. You mentioned those players as a positive. I pointed out they had started well this season but their form had dipped. You seem to agree Sutcliffe had a poor game and has been dropped. Great example of positive form.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:13 pm  

G1 wrote:

I didn't know whether you were confusing the top 8s with the playoffs. I still don't. We don't get |"home ties" per se in the top 8s. We play some home and some away. We want a home tie in the playoffs but that is much farther than 7 weeks away, which is what you were talking about.

Sorry I meant we're aiming for home advantage in the semis, so we need to be top or top 2 going into the super 8s really which is 7 weeks away.

G1 wrote:

We lost to Wigan last week who two weeks previously were beaten by Hull KR who we beat the week after.
I'd argue a bigger frame of reference is a better indicator than short term form.

I agree but... a year? When the squad was different and Leeds were clearly focussed on the CC above anything else.
I still believe we'd have reached the GF too, if not for that ridiculous last 10 seconds at Headingley.

G1 wrote:

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. You mentioned those players as a positive. I pointed out they had started well this season but their form had dipped. You seem to agree Sutcliffe had a poor game and has been dropped. Great example of positive form.

Jeez if we're writing players off after 1 poor game then where do you want me to start...........

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:20 pm  

loiner81 wrote:

I agree but... a year? When the squad was different and Leeds were clearly focussed on the CC above anything else.
I still believe we'd have reached the GF too, if not for that ridiculous last 10 seconds at Headingley.

Speaking of which, the exact same scenario happened at the Magic game. Hardaker managed to squeeze over the line to avoid a drop out in pretty much the same spot next to the corner flag. Watkins passes the ball from the PTB, yet I've not heard no complaints about it being a stupid move that no other player would make, simply because on this occasion the receiver caught the ball.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:43 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Speaking of which, the exact same scenario happened at the Magic game. Hardaker managed to squeeze over the line to avoid a drop out in pretty much the same spot next to the corner flag. Watkins passes the ball from the PTB, yet I've not heard no complaints about it being a stupid move that no other player would make, simply because on this occasion the receiver caught the ball.

what was the score at the time, how long was there left in the game? Even you are not comparing the two plays as being of identical significance in their respective games!!

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:03 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

what was the score at the time, how long was there left in the game? Even you are not comparing the two plays as being of identical significance in their respective games!!

If it resulted in a knock on and a Wigan try and they eventually won by 2 points do you say it's ok because of the match time or do you slate it saying it ended up costing us the match?

Think it'd be the latter.

Re: For the love of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:07 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

If it resulted in a knock on and a Wigan try and they eventually won by 2 points do you say it's ok because of the match time or do you slate it saying it ended up costing us the match?

Think it'd be the latter.

Would MCGuire have given away a stupid unnecessary penalty again?