Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:53 am  

Nice use of language, not showing any bias at all

Sutcliffe:

Juan Cornetto wrote:

at which point he was dropped to the bench

Sinfield:

Juan Cornetto wrote:

with Sinny being kept fresh on the bench.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:07 am  

Gotcha wrote:

I remember Paul McShane having six better games than I have seen Sutcliffe have. Nick Scruton certainly had many better games than six. Ben Jones Bishop again better games in more than six. I mean the list could go on, Simon Worrall had six games where he looked very good, where is he now?

What those six games showed with Sutcliffe, and it was mentioned at the time, is that whilst the going was good and everyone around him playing well he could stand out. When the going got tougher and some of his team mates faltered he was brought down to a level. Something that top players don't allow to happen.

My God you talk some guff. The obvious response to your ridiculous statement being, none of those players were positioned at half back.

It takes years to become a proficient creative half back, if it didn't Thurston would never have left the Bulldogs, Schofield would never have played centre (same for Laurie Daley) and Lockyer wouldn't have been a full back. Even recently in the SL, Brough bumped along through the bottom feeders for a number of years before finding his feet.

I'm not sure if Sutcliffe has what it takes right now but, I am certain that he is not the reason we are struggling so badly and we will not find out how far he can go by chucking him to the wolves now.

In the Saints game alone last season, he showed plenty of what he CAN do. He read the game well, ran well at second receiver, put in some good kicks and moved the ball around with some skill. With the exception of BJB, I never saw any of the players you are talking about, take the game by the scruff of the neck and win it (even for 40 minutes). Get off his back and give the guy a chance.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:09 am  

son of headingley wrote:

Nice use of language, not showing any bias at all

Sutcliffe:
Sinfield:

Stand back and wait for the London telephone directory to be issued in response.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:38 am  

Ronzy wrote:

My God you talk some guff. The obvious response to your ridiculous statement being, none of those players were positioned at half back.

It takes years to become a proficient creative half back, if it didn't Thurston would never have left the Bulldogs, Schofield would never have played centre (same for Laurie Daley) and Lockyer wouldn't have been a full back. Even recently in the SL, Brough bumped along through the bottom feeders for a number of years before finding his feet.

I'm not sure if Sutcliffe has what it takes right now but, I am certain that he is not the reason we are struggling so badly and we will not find out how far he can go by chucking him to the wolves now.

In the Saints game alone last season, he showed plenty of what he CAN do. He read the game well, ran well at second receiver, put in some good kicks and moved the ball around with some skill. With the exception of BJB, I never saw any of the players you are talking about, take the game by the scruff of the neck and win it (even for 40 minutes). Get off his back and give the guy a chance.

I could quite easily label the same statement at you. I am well aware half backs take time to settle, however they also show they have the ability in the first place to warrant that settling period, and that they could do it in future. I have said this many times, and still never seen a post to refute it, there is no difference between Sutcliffe and Lee Gaskell at the same ages, they are like for like players completely. Gaskell however, had many better games in the halfs, and was the choice of porn for certain sky commentators. Howver, what is his level now? what position is he? Saints knew what they were doing, and for the right reason. Are you suggesting Saints would regret their decision?

We have had two or three half backs over the last decade who looked miles better than Sutcliffe, they were sent packing. Do the club regret it? I can't recall seeing your posts of not to write them off.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:47 am  

Gotcha wrote:

I remember Paul McShane having six better games than I have seen Sutcliffe have. Nick Scruton certainly had many better games than six. Ben Jones Bishop again better games in more than six. I mean the list could go on, Simon Worrall had six games where he looked very good, where is he now?

What those six games showed with Sutcliffe, and it was mentioned at the time, is that whilst the going was good and everyone around him playing well he could stand out. When the going got tougher and some of his team mates faltered he was brought down to a level. Something that top players don't allow to happen.

Have Mcguire Sinfield Burrow etc never looked "lost" when the whole team has struggled for form in the past?
Indeed it took Sinfield plenty of time to settle in at 6 in fact he spent plenty of time just where Stevie Ward is now in the SR.
The fact yer writing the kid off after 7mths out after major surgery no pre-season & thrown into a rudderless team with 2 wins in 10 games really ?'s how you judge a player imo.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:52 am  

Did someone really use Simon Worrall there, what next Joe Vickery .....

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:55 am  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

Have Mcguire Sinfield Burrow etc never looked "lost" when the whole team has struggled for form in the past?
Indeed it took Sinfield plenty of time to settle in at 6 in fact he spent plenty of time just where Stevie Ward is now in the SR.
The fact yer writing the kid off after 7mths out after major surgery no pre-season & thrown into a rudderless team with 2 wins in 10 games really ?'s how you judge a player imo.

I am not writing him off after 7 months of injury. I pointed out the problems with his game last season, before his injury, and that stand off was not the position for him. The injury is nothing more than an excuse for people to use. That would effect his speed, it wouldn't effect his limited skill level. Infact, as I repeat, go back to my appraisal of Saturdays game and you will see my praise of him in the centre role. Is that writing off? Do you really think he has shown anything close to the level Gaskell showed at Saints?

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:04 am  

Gaskell at St Helens is one example but so is Kevin Brown at Wigan - all depends on your point of view.

McGuire at 7 and 1st receiver with Sutcliffe at 6 is Leeds' most likely looking combination when available. If McGuire continues to be unavailable for chunks of the season then going forward the number one priority is to find a quality number 7 - Burrow nor no pace Lilley need apply. Sutcliffe is no Sinfield at the moment but he has the potential to be a good player with a bit of patience, good coaching and support around him on the field, IMO.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:08 am  

tvoc wrote:

Did someone really use Simon Worrall there, what next Joe Vickery .....

Whatever happened to Simon Worrall?

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:12 am  

Gotcha wrote:

I am not writing him off after 7 months of injury. I pointed out the problems with his game last season, before his injury, and that stand off was not the position for him. The injury is nothing more than an excuse for people to use. That would effect his speed, it wouldn't effect his limited skill level. Infact, as I repeat, go back to my appraisal of Saturdays game and you will see my praise of him in the centre role. Is that writing off? Do you really think he has shown anything close to the level Gaskell showed at Saints?

7mths injured isnt an excuse at all its a fact during which 99.9% will be purely re-hab with a view to completing at least part of a pre-season which never happened.
Also how much gametime has he had in the current set up with Mags at 7 Falloon at 9 & with a team around him actually functioning?
Re-Gaskell how long did ST's give him before pulling the trigger & when they did if he's that good how come he's at Bradford?
Its been far too easy for some to rip a young HB apart when our problems are blatantly bigger elsewhere id also add its interesting you jump to Hardakers defencd re-Coaches orders when i also know Sutty/Delaney were both told to run it as much as poss last year so how do you know he hasnt been told the same again?
Yes he's struggled at times but that doesn't automatically prove he isnt capable of playing as a 6 EVERY player goes through those phases & looking at he bigger picture its no surprise he's struggled.