Re: Ryan Bailey : Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:00 pm  

tigertot wrote:

I have known & know several colleagues, friends & family who have suffered to varying degrees with depression. One colleague I managed died a slow & painful death from the illness. However there is a tendency to label people now, which makes it easier to give them prescription drugs, with over a million under 5s in America on psychiatric drugs, making huge profits for drug companies. Most people feel down at periods in their lives due to specific events, hopefully with Bailey that's what it was, rather than something that has/will affect him all his life.

After two cancer scares in the last 12 months (one still on-going but not such a worry now) I had my first ever full blown anxiety attack recently. F*** me! that was a surprise and a half. It's not in your head, it's a physical reaction to stress that you can't control (and I am very, very used to stress for several reasons). I genuinely thought I was dying. I am still having "aftershocks" which come on completely at random and scare the $h!t out of me. Depression is very similar in that in it's severe form manifests physically and is terrifying. It's the physical symptoms that most people don't even consider - it's not someone sat in a room feeling unhappy. I have a mate who I've worked with for 15 years and completely out of the blue he shut down. You would never in a million years think anything like that could happen to a guy like him and it did. He was off work for nearly three months. Thankfully he's recovered, but I now can see the parts of his personality (the drive, the commitmment to doing things right and the work ethic) that caused his issues when his job temprarily changed within the company.
More needs to be done.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:16 pm  

rotherhamrhino wrote:

nantwichexile wrote:

Exactly...there is still a long way to go. Many will still have to be careful before confessing their state of mind (and for many years yet to come it will remain too late for too many)

Well said. who is Superted.... Is he a troll?
To simply define one event in someone's life (leaving Leeds) and suggest that this is the course of stress rather than depression and he should get a grip because this is real life is a massive oversimplification. Hope nobody Superted is close to ever suffers from depression as I fear for their future wellbeing.

Nope, I'm not a troll, just someone who's not afraid to voice an opinion on a touchy subject that is different to the majority....

For those having a dig - are you all saying you don't believe it ever happens? That there aren't instances of people claiming depression under false pretences and for a cynical gain?

I've been unfortunate enough to have family members and close friends legitimately suffer at the hands of mental illness - but I also know a number of people who have fraudulently used depression for a number of gains - time off work, benefits and even for sympathy.... Not too dissimilar to the utter scumbags who've falsely claimed to have other illnesses such as cancer..... In the real world, unfortunately it happens....

Don't let the thin air up on that moral high ground cloud your judgement - sometimes some people abuse the system and peoples goodwill - I've given my opinion based on personal knowledge and experience.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:34 pm  

Superted wrote:

Nope, I'm not a troll, just someone who's not afraid to voice an opinion on a touchy subject that is different to the majority....

For those having a dig - are you all saying you don't believe it ever happens? That there aren't instances of people claiming depression under false pretences and for a cynical gain?

I've been unfortunate enough to have family members and close friends legitimately suffer at the hands of mental illness - but I also know a number of people who have fraudulently used depression for a number of gains - time off work, benefits and even for sympathy.... Not too dissimilar to the utter scumbags who've falsely claimed to have other illnesses such as cancer..... In the real world, unfortunately it happens....

Don't let the thin air up on that moral high ground cloud your judgement - sometimes some people abuse the system and peoples goodwill - I've given my opinion based on personal knowledge and experience.

By that same principle had Ryan Bailey come out and said he'd been struggling with cancer you'd have placed the same level of suspicion on that revelation too? Or do you not believe mental illnesses should be valued the same as physical ones?

Re: Ryan Bailey : Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:58 pm  

Seth wrote:

Superted wrote:

Nope, I'm not a troll, just someone who's not afraid to voice an opinion on a touchy subject that is different to the majority....

For those having a dig - are you all saying you don't believe it ever happens? That there aren't instances of people claiming depression under false pretences and for a cynical gain?

I've been unfortunate enough to have family members and close friends legitimately suffer at the hands of mental illness - but I also know a number of people who have fraudulently used depression for a number of gains - time off work, benefits and even for sympathy.... Not too dissimilar to the utter scumbags who've falsely claimed to have other illnesses such as cancer..... In the real world, unfortunately it happens....

Don't let the thin air up on that moral high ground cloud your judgement - sometimes some people abuse the system and peoples goodwill - I've given my opinion based on personal knowledge and experience.

By that same principle had Ryan Bailey come out and said he'd been struggling with cancer you'd have placed the same level of suspicion on that revelation too? Or do you not believe mental illnesses should be valued the same as physical ones?

Clearly not - as its not really the same principle is it - other than unfortunately some people choose to do same pretty low things..... You've just chose a particular comparison I used to show people do sometimes claim illness (of any sort) falsely for their own benefit.

So for the record, if he'd said he had cancer, of course I'd believe him....

All I'm saying is that there is a trend of bad behaviour being followed by an 'admittance' of depression - and from my personal experiences with Ryan over 25 years, yes I am very cynical.... I do think he's gone through a tough time, he's had to deal with the consequences of his actions (this time without Leeds holding his hand and protecting him) and he's not enjoyed it.... But that's very different to depression!!!

Like I said in my first post - I appreciate others won't agree with that view, some will no doubt be 'outraged' and 'offended' by my cynicism - but I couldn't really give a hoot about that - it's my opinion, based on my experiences with this individual and on many life experiences of people genuinely fighting mental illness, and those fraudulently claiming it for their own benefit....

Peace out!

Re: Ryan Bailey : Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:29 pm  

Superted wrote:

Clearly not - as its not really the same principle is it - other than unfortunately some people choose to do same pretty low things..... You've just chose a particular comparison I used to show people do sometimes claim illness (of any sort) falsely for their own benefit.

So for the record, if he'd said he had cancer, of course I'd believe him....

All I'm saying is that there is a trend of bad behaviour being followed by an 'admittance' of depression - and from my personal experiences with Ryan over 25 years, yes I am very cynical.... I do think he's gone through a tough time, he's had to deal with the consequences of his actions (this time without Leeds holding his hand and protecting him) and he's not enjoyed it.... But that's very different to depression!!!

Like I said in my first post - I appreciate others won't agree with that view, some will no doubt be 'outraged' and 'offended' by my cynicism - but I couldn't really give a hoot about that - it's my opinion, based on my experiences with this individual and on many life experiences of people genuinely fighting mental illness, and those fraudulently claiming it for their own benefit....

Peace out!

There may be a a correlation or trend of bad behaviour being followed by claims of depression or other mental illness. Perhaps that isnt because people are 'faking it' or 'hiding behind it' but because that is sometimes how mental illness manifests itself.

For example, a couple of manifestations of depression are lack of motivation, trouble sleeping, lack of energy, avoiding social activities and contact with friends and a higher propensity for substance abuse.

Now in the realms of a professional sportsman what is viewed as a lazy unprofessional ar5ehole turning up late and hungover to training and not pushing themselves, could be a depressed person self-medicating with alcohol and struggling to fulfil the expectations of a pro sportsman because of the physical manifestations of depression.

Perhaps a person not turning up to stand in front of thousands of fans and friends to be thanked, isnt a selfish ungrateful flake but someone absolutely terrified of that situation.

You may not be wrong about the pattern, you may not be wrong about your personal experiences of Bailey, however it may just be that the reason for that pattern is the reason for your experiences with him and they are the manifestations in his case. It is unfortunate that often what we class as 'bad behaviour' is also often how depression appears to others.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:34 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

There may be a a correlation or trend of bad behaviour being followed by claims of depression or other mental illness. Perhaps that isnt because people are 'faking it' or 'hiding behind it' but because that is sometimes how mental illness manifests itself.

For example, a couple of manifestations of depression are lack of motivation, trouble sleeping, lack of energy, avoiding social activities and contact with friends and a higher propensity for substance abuse.

Now in the realms of a professional sportsman what is viewed as a lazy unprofessional ar5ehole turning up late and hungover to training and not pushing themselves, could be a depressed person self-medicating with alcohol and struggling to fulfil the expectations of a pro sportsman because of the physical manifestations of depression.

Perhaps a person not turning up to stand in front of thousands of fans and friends to be thanked, isnt a selfish ungrateful flake but someone absolutely terrified of that situation.

You may not be wrong about the pattern, you may not be wrong about your personal experiences of Bailey, however it may just be that the reason for that pattern is the reason for your experiences with him and they are the manifestations in his case. It is unfortunate that often what we class as 'bad behaviour' is also often how depression appears to others.

Good post and nice to hear the support for others who are also suffering.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:07 pm  

Sometime the self destructive attitude comes from not caring about the world around you, you see yourself as unworthy and sometimes you don't actually care about anyone else either, you already have a low opinion of yourself so you do something that others won't like but you really don't give a monkeys how you are perceived. I've done things I'm not proud of when I've been at my low points, I've hurt people, not intentionally but just because i was locked into my world and didn't care about anything.
Bailey could have been a daft lad just because, or he could have been a daft lad because of the depression but i doubt he would use depression as a get out clause because he obviously found it very hard to come out and say.
Would he sacrifice his pride, to excuse his past if he wasn't genuinely depressed? I doubt anyone would.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:22 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

For example, a couple of manifestations of depression are lack of motivation, trouble sleeping, lack of energy, avoiding social activities and contact with friends and a higher propensity for substance abuse.

I know me and Smokey are having our run ins but he's just pretty much nailed my life in one paragraph. It's really surprised me (in a good way) how many others on here have had the same struggles and have had the balls to talk about it because it's so hard to share and I went 2 years without speaking to my three closest friends that I use to share a house with. I without notice suddenly packed all my stuff up and moved out without telling them on a NYE's whilst they were out buying stuff for the party that night, I'm a lucky b@st@rd that they forgave and tried to understand this as they actually did try to reach out me at the time as they could see I was struggling with stuff but I kept pushing them away (and skip forward and just a few months ago I became godfather to one of their kids). I took the option I did because I'm arguably the most stubborn c**t you'll meet (those of you familiar with my posting history will attest to that ) and I actually opted to drive my friends away and think of me a "c*nt" rather than open up and have them think of me as a "weirdo" or "nutjob". You actually prefer the idea that people think you're a pr*ck instead of needing help. That's how f*cked up it can get.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:00 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Superted wrote:

Clearly not - as its not really the same principle is it - other than unfortunately some people choose to do same pretty low things..... You've just chose a particular comparison I used to show people do sometimes claim illness (of any sort) falsely for their own benefit.

So for the record, if he'd said he had cancer, of course I'd believe him....

All I'm saying is that there is a trend of bad behaviour being followed by an 'admittance' of depression - and from my personal experiences with Ryan over 25 years, yes I am very cynical.... I do think he's gone through a tough time, he's had to deal with the consequences of his actions (this time without Leeds holding his hand and protecting him) and he's not enjoyed it.... But that's very different to depression!!!

Like I said in my first post - I appreciate others won't agree with that view, some will no doubt be 'outraged' and 'offended' by my cynicism - but I couldn't really give a hoot about that - it's my opinion, based on my experiences with this individual and on many life experiences of people genuinely fighting mental illness, and those fraudulently claiming it for their own benefit....

Peace out!

There may be a a correlation or trend of bad behaviour being followed by claims of depression or other mental illness. Perhaps that isnt because people are 'faking it' or 'hiding behind it' but because that is sometimes how mental illness manifests itself.

For example, a couple of manifestations of depression are lack of motivation, trouble sleeping, lack of energy, avoiding social activities and contact with friends and a higher propensity for substance abuse.

Now in the realms of a professional sportsman what is viewed as a lazy unprofessional ar5ehole turning up late and hungover to training and not pushing themselves, could be a depressed person self-medicating with alcohol and struggling to fulfil the expectations of a pro sportsman because of the physical manifestations of depression.

Perhaps a person not turning up to stand in front of thousands of fans and friends to be thanked, isnt a selfish ungrateful flake but someone absolutely terrified of that situation.

You may not be wrong about the pattern, you may not be wrong about your personal experiences of Bailey, however it may just be that the reason for that pattern is the reason for your experiences with him and they are the manifestations in his case. It is unfortunate that often what we class as 'bad behaviour' is also often how depression appears to others.

Great post - and you're absolutely right, it can manifest in a number of ways - strange/poor/irrational behaviour absolutely being examples.

My point is that it's not always genuine - and there has been no behavioural change in Ryan, the things he's done over the past 18 months are no different to the rest of his adult life, and follow on from a pattern in his behaviour he's had since early childhood - some may think that means he's had long and deep rooted mental health issues, some might feel his behaviour is nothing to do with the depression and that he's been suffering and the behaviour is a seperate issue, some will be cynical and think he's had a lot of grief from the fans of his new club and wants to find a way of dampening that, getting them to cut him some slack and getting them on his side.

Maybe I live in a different world to those who think my view is outrageous (not talking about you here Smokey) - but I've seen false claims on numerous occasions for various benefits - and taking everything into account, with this individual, sadly I'm of the cynical stance.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:03 am  

His behaviour could be a separate thing, let's imagine it is.

Would you still come out and say you were suffering from depression, in this sport if you wasn't?
It's probably the 2nd hardest thing to admit behind being gay due to the merciless taunts of those that don't understand.