Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 4:29 pm  

Once were Loiners wrote:

Despite the focus on the new signings - most of whom will be on very low wages in SL terms - its clearly our highest earners who again aren't doing it. How are Hooley, Olpherts, Roberts etc responsible for poor performances when they're not even playing? Look at our 1,6 and 7 and our more highly paid players such as Bentley, Tetevano etc before worrying about fringe squad players who were signed to add depth with the hope one or two make it longer term. You want to win stuff, you need a good spine and big money players to perform like they are worth it. Neither is true right now.

I`m not saying the likes of Hooley, Roberts, Olpherts etc are responsible for our performances this season and recognise they were brought in for the future and as cover for the squad.
For me and like you have said our top earners are not doing what they are handsomely paid to do and with a bit of luck the majority will no longer be with us.
The style of play is a worry and I`m not sure if it is the coach or the players.
Is it the coach who instills a lack of intensity and play a passive defence? Probably.
Is it the players who cannot make the right decisions and drop the ball and show a lack of indiscipline? Most probably.
Its getting the balance right and the right players to execute and maybe the coach needs to address some of his tactics too.

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 7:05 pm  

We shouldn't be getting rid of Smith,he has to be given cash and confidence to sign the guys he wants when cap is free next year but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be criticised when the team seem to be playing the way he wants..and stuff it up almost week after week.

We should be parting ways with Tet , Donaldson and Bentley at the end of this year with looking at Walters and Gannon to replace them along with Martin back in the SR with Mcdonnell.

Hetherington needs to realise we cant use trophy winning to get good players cheaper anymore. We will have to pay market value and carefully manage the cap...with priority atm being FB and HB and retaining the (good) youngsters we have.

Re: Sam Walters : Wed May 10, 2023 11:35 am  

christopher wrote:

In the last few years probably not but we've won a CC final and had an amazing run into the GF last year.

Yet there are some fans wanting rid of the coach because of an inconsistent start to the season.

Agar was kept on far too long, we should have hired Smith before the start of 2022, however that wouldn't have helped the salary cap mess, which Smith had absolutely no chance of sorting before this season.

the coach to go

I am not wanting to go. At the of 2025 we need to review and assess his position - but not until IMO

We won the CC when there was only 10 teams in the comp. IIRC Leeds only played 3 games inc. the final?

Compounding bad decisions is never a great idea - it seems Leeds specialise in this area

Re: Sam Walters : Wed May 10, 2023 11:44 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

It's a matter of perspective, isn't it? As compared with the glory years there's been a big drop off, and 2018 and 19 were unquestionably poor. However since 2020 we've won the challenge Cup, finished consistently in the play offs and last year made the GF. I'm not sure how long you have supported the the club, but is more success than we managed in the 80's and pretty much the whole of the 90's.Elite is an interesting word - I would have thought by definition only a very small number could be considered elite in any era, so I would say it is unrealistic for the club to attain that standard all the time. Don't get me wrong, I do get massively disgruntled by some of the poor stuff I've seen us serve up at Headingley over the last few years, but I am confident it will come good sooner rather than later.

I went to my first Leeds game in 1968 - but I am not one to compare part time players to full time.

In northern hemisphere RL these are the elite - the cream of the crop. There are less than 500 of them out of 40k participants c2%. You surely can expect the players to be able to catch, pass and tackle to a high standard - is this what you are seeing each week - its not what I see.

As I have said in a previous post we won the 2020 CC when only 10 teams were included - Leeds played 3 games inc. the final

Re: Sam Walters : Wed May 10, 2023 11:52 am  

I'd give smith longer but I'm really not a fan. despite his methods failing badly he seems too arrogant to change them. he may prove me wrong, I hope his issuccesful but I just don't like him.
if nothing changes in 8 weeks I would get rid. another poor hetherington decision.

Re: Sam Walters : Wed May 10, 2023 12:06 pm  

I don't dislike him and don't find him arrogant at all and would be sure the players don't see him that way, he seems a very personable coach away from the mundane media questions.

The problem I have is that he does seem too rigid at times to a philosophy that, if we're interpreting it right, looks like it's based on going against principles that for me will always stand firm owing to the nature of the game. Ie territory, possession, pressure, momentum and the energy battlee. My hope is that he does reflect (as he clearly did with contested kick offs) and finds a measured approach.

Re: Sam Walters : Wed May 10, 2023 12:32 pm  

Still a lot of sorting out needed imo, way beyond week to week results. Reckon Smith can improve the young player production line which to say the least churns out variable quality. Jury's out on signings but I'm happy to wait til he has the cap and the quota to properly judge him on that.
More short term concern is defence. Whatever anyone's thoughts on JJB as a head coach, it's surely beyond dispute that our defence has taken a big dip since he was stood down as defence coach. Our conditioning actually looks pretty good. Surely there's a case for bringing in a specialist as it simply ain't happening under the current setup.

Re: Sam Walters : Wed May 10, 2023 12:36 pm  

I'm not sure where the idea that he's arrogant has come from?

His media interviews can be a bit weird/frosty but I think that's just his demeanour, his dad and uncle are similar in that respect, and anyway, with the quality of journalism and journalists in our game I'd be prickly with them too (James Deighton aside!) most of them look like they've never done a video call before and often they just ask the same inane questions as the person before, terrible look for the sport.

Re: Sam Walters : Wed May 10, 2023 12:58 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I went to my first Leeds game in 1968 - but I am not one to compare part time players to full time.

In northern hemisphere RL these are the elite - the cream of the crop. There are less than 500 of them out of 40k participants c2%. You surely can expect the players to be able to catch, pass and tackle to a high standard - is this what you are seeing each week - its not what I see.

As I have said in a previous post we won the 2020 CC when only 10 teams were included - Leeds played 3 games inc. the final

Hmmm. That's interesting maths but I'm not sure I buy it. Surely the elite are the best players in the competition, not SL players in general. When I think of elite SL players I think: Lomax, Welsby, Williams, Vaughan, French, Field etc. To put it bluntly I'm not sure anybody in that class is trotting round in blue and amber. That is something that has to change for 2023 when we'll have lots of cash to splash. I don't think you have to be an elite player to be able to run, tackle, pass to a high standard etc, but I do accept that players are human and they do make mistakes/lose form (Rhyse Martin being a good example) so we'll always be tearing our hair out to some extent. That is the nature of sport. I also accept that success is cyclical in nature, and as a supporter you have to endure the bad and average to truly enjoy the good. Not sure what difference part time v full time makes to that equation. Finally - so what if we only one three games to win the CC in 2020? They were are all SL teams and the Wigan side we beat in the semi was top notch. Nobody gave us the cup, we won it. Seems silly to pretend otherwise.

Re: Sam Walters : Wed May 10, 2023 1:04 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

Finally - so what if we only one three games to win the CC in 2020? They were are all SL teams and the Wigan side we beat in the semi was top notch. Nobody gave us the cup, we won it. Seems silly to pretend otherwise.

He would probs be complaining if we werent able to string 3 wins together to win the CC that year, moaners gonna moan.