Graham is, and Ellis was, integral to the teams success. Burgess isn't.

Why are people so adamant to try and run the clubs affairs for them!? Just support the team and leave them to get on with what they think is best. If it turns out to be a mistake, or you strongly disagree with something they've done, then just don't buy a ticket next year. Simple.

I think people are forgetting that we're talking about LUKE Burgess here. Yes, his form has been OK, and he's been one of the best of a very bad lot, but it's LUKE BURGESS. If we're ever in a WCC against the Bunnies and Luke Burgess is the difference between us winning or losing I'll eat my hat. He won't even be bloody playing never mind making any difference!

Excellent post.

The bigger picture is the message this shambles is sending out far and wide, not just to players in the NRL, but also possible targets within super-league, current rhinos players including the academy lads.

The difference is the team isn't successful is it - it is getting spanked by the better sides, this is a side in free fall.

If we take your view we might as well not have a forum - you might want to kneel, bow and grovel everytime GH walks by, I don't - simples!!

It's not that I want to kneel, bow & grovel. It's that I want to spend my money on things that I derive pleasure from. It's a difficult concept to grasp I know but you do know that supporting a team is optional don't you? I don't know about you but I don't really want to spend well over £1000 per year just to constantly moan and criticise something.

What you describe as "kneeling, bowing and grovelling" I describe as supporting the decisions of a club that I'm CHOOSING TO PAY to support. If you want to work hard all week to buy tickets for games, then spend all weekend angry about it, who's the mug?

It's nice to win, of course, but win or lose I'm determined to enjoy supporting Leeds. The day I don't enjoy it, and the day that it is making me as angry as it seems to make some of you, is the day I'll stop paying my hard earned cash and spending my valuable time doing it.

Life is too short mate, either get on board and enjoy the ride, or don't buy a ticket.

Sal ,I can see the point to most of your post but to say the club is in free-fall is way OTT and this CEO is far from out of his depth.
Cross signed a 2 yr deal under "Bluey" that coach left and unfortunately it's not worked out.
As for Burgess yes he can go and ask why he isn't selected and to be fair he has a very valid point going by his early season form BUT it's how you react to these calls that make the difference and Burgess' toys out of pram approach and stomping feet isn't the way ANY Pro sports man should react imo.
As for "bad for business" not at all look at Robbie Mears departure he was scathing about the club and that did no harm at all.
Players come and go all the time whether voluntry or otherwise it's a fact of life in sport and whilst it is dissapointing re-Burgess he made clear he was off and Cross simply wasn't this coaches choice.

We must agree to differ - champions to also rans in 2 years I would call freefall what would you call it?

As for RU - would you say GH has made a huge success of that too?

Crowds are falling - does that suggest Hetherington is doing a top job?

We don't know how Burgess has reacted - the rumour I hear is he was offered a new contract after 2 days he hadn't signed and the club then said "His heart wasn't in it" - maybe this is what they call disappointing? None of us have details of what was offered so we are not in a position to say whether the contract was generous or an insult?

The only person who signs players is Hetherington not the coach - IMO Cross has hardly been given a chance to show what he can do, 10 games is hardly adequate - he has been treated appallingly. As far as I can see he produced on the pitch exactly what was expected and what he had shown at his other clubs. If that wasn't what Hetherington wanted why did he sign him? - he was never suddenly going to metamophisise into Matt Scott. If the team was top of the table and the forwards dominanting I could see a point for him being unable to break into the team - we both know that is not the case. Could he possible offer less than the props we have?

The cap is in the NRL is going up so it will become increasingly difficult to get the better players - like us when we are changing jobs they are interested in moving to an employer with the correct culture. Instances such as Cross will not help.

Best and totally dominant, to a debatable 5th best in two years is a pretty big drop. I think what Sal was getting at, is without addressing this problem quickly that fall is going to keep gaining momentum.

Your comment about GH is not correct. Look at our sister club, then look at us. Not that I give a 5h1t about union, but there is a lot of displeasure with that lot at the moment at the way GH has handled the club, most notably recruitment and coaching. It kind of rings a bell when you look at the Rhinos for the last 18 months also. A serious "taking the eye off the ball" has happened with GH over the last couple of years, and he has a lot of ground to make up.

Alternatively rather than just three bags full you can have an input - just because you pay your money doesn't mean you should just accept what is going on. Walking away isn't the only way to get the message across, neither is total obsequiousness as you suggest. Any supporter who just accepts that the board gets everything correct isn't a supporter in my view they are follower - big difference.

As I said earlier why bother with a forum - everything is rosy - the board are beyond critic.

I have never said that the board get everything correct. Obviously they don't. They're not beyond critique. What I'm saying is there's no point getting angry about it, or trying to change it retrospectively. You can criticise them all you like if it makes you happy. Whatever floats your boat. What I'm saying is I don't understand why you'd want to pay money to moan, critique, complain, belittle, second guess, disagree and just generally grumble about something. I'm not stopping you doing it, I'm just saying I don't understand why you bother. Each to their own. I'm onto my 14 (possibly 15th?!) season ticket in a row now, so I'm clearly a loyal supporter, what I'm saying is as much as I love Leeds, I'm not going to give myself a heart attack over decisions that they may or may not get wrong.

As to why bother with a forum... it's a place to discuss all things Leeds, and O/T subjects with people whom you share a common interest with. Although you're right, I sometimes wonder why I do bother.

The glass is half full mate... Sunny side up... Always look on the bright side of life, de dum, de dum de dum de dum... Chin up... Smile, it confuses people... Don't worry, be happy...etc etc.

I've got to disagree really, because while I accept the club has a duty of care to it's employees, it's duty of care only extends as far as employment law, H&S etc and it's contractual obligations to the employee. If we expect clubs to go further than that then the club should, rightly, expect something similar in return from the player. Also these aren't young 17 year olds who are just starting out, Burgess is 24 & Cross is 32. Both should be experienced in how clubs work by now and don't need protecting in some way from any naive decisions that might be made by younger lads.
Burgess has played in 11 out of 17 SL games this season and IIRC he missed a few of those through injury as well so he's hardly been totally overlooked all season (although I would agree the constant selection of Kirke is slightly confusing). If, as it appears, Burgess has thrown his toys out of the pram I would expect there to be some kind of disciplinary measure taken against him. Maybe in this case it's been non-selection for first team games. I don't expect him to be happy about not playing every week, that's good and shows some enthusiasm, but I do expect him to be professional about it, work his backside off in training and force his way back into the team.
It also comes nowhere close to constructive dismissal.

As for Cross, well until the details come out I have a bit more sympathy with the player on this one since as you say he's brought his family across the world, but there are rumours of disciplinary problems so I'll keep an open mind on this one until the truth comes out.

As for GH, I think the comments are a bit harsh to be honest. Considering no club in the modern era has had a period of dominance such as the one Leeds enjoyed don't you think it only natural for their to be a decline of some sort at some sort? I think it's just a cycle in sport, especially a salary capped one, and whilst I'm sure there are things GH has got wrong I think you're underestimatingthe difficulties of keeping a side consistently winning major trophies. Also if Warrington, Hudds & Wigan were as gash now as they were 5 years ago we'd be about 2nd or 3rd. Other teams have improved whilst we are going through a natural decline. Admittedly with a few poor decisions tacked on.

Good stuff "Him" and i agree.
Gotcha ,GH is more than capable of running this club and his record stands up to any other in SL.
As for his "running" of the union side that's nothing to do with the Rhinos and to be fair that squad with that coach should not of finished bottom given the state of Newcastle and Sale so the team and coaches take 90% of that blame.
Of course things can go wrong and i don't think the club are totally perfect in everything they've done but the free-fall ,GH out of his depth etc etc are way OTT imo.
just to add i'll decide if my own opinion on GH is right or wrong thanks ,feel free to disagree but don't "Tell2 me what i should think.