Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:32 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Put whatever number you want on his back, Burrow is playing how Burrow plays..

That is a big part of the problem.

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:41 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Put whatever number you want on his back, Burrow is playing how Burrow plays. He isnt a different player because of the number on his back, same as Sinfield isnt turning in to Paul Gallen when he lined up at loose instead of in the halves. Even then he won a Harry Sunderland award as an impact hooker.

Players are players, not a list of skills that fit a certain position. Burrow was never more a proper half than he was a proper hooker. He was Rob Burrow.

That he might be, but he wasn't going into dummy half nearly all game when Matt Diskin was here. Defenders weren't having to shuffle in one because we had to defend two halves on one side. So yes Burrow might still play like Burrow, but our centres weren't having to do extra amounts of tackles, our props weren't missing a 40 tackle a game hooker defending next to them so you're again completely missing the point about the balance of the team. Other people's games have to change if he plays there, and not for the better.

Segeyaro might start 28/29 games next year and then get injured and Burrow might do the exact same thing as 2015 and come in and start the last few and we win a GF.....but if we have Burrow starting hooker week in week out for 30 odd weeks it won't lead to success. You point to a 3 game cameo to say it works but me and others are on about him playing there every week throughout a year and their's no evidence to support that working.

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:43 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Falloon was an absolute dud, goodness knows how he ever got a gig in the NRL but he offered us nothing. He wasn't good enough for the Championship, Aiton was miles better, so the fact he changed nothing is of no surprise at all.

Falloon had a better NRL career than Aiton. The idea, based on half of this seasona and half of last that Aiton was somehow on a different level to Falloon is nonsense.

Watkins looked far better first half of last year, he was ripping it up. No coincidence off the back of the quick plays, neat dummy half work and link up between Aiton and his forwards in second phase ball with offloads from the like of Cuthbertson (another whos game has fallen away since then surprise surprise) giving him space and early ball. So Watkins then became a tackling machine again for the last few weeks when we forced to go back to Burrow. Not his fault, but annoying having your rolls royce attacking weapon having to do donkey work to hide others imo.

Again, Burrow is a great player and like Printer said, one you wouldn't mind having to cover for the odd game here or there. But, for the benefit of the TEAM moving forward we need... yes you've guessed it, 'a proper hooker' as often as possible

A proper like Falloon? a proper hooker like Millard?

Watkins looked better first half of last year because he was playing outside two form halves and a dominant pack. Aiton was, and is, an average hooker playing in an outstanding side. Put Falloon in that side and he looks great. Hell, we apparently didnt need a hooker at all behind that pack and with those halves.

This is no different to the last 15 years where we have been wildly successful with McGuire as a stand off who wasnt really a stand off, just a back up player, Burrow a Half who wasnt a proper half and a hooker who wasnt a proper hooker and Sinfield as a loose who wasnt big enough and a half that wasnt fast enough. Its crazy that we managed to beat all these teams with proper hookers and proper halves. People get locked in their heads that each position has a certain set of skills and players need those skills to play in those positions when that isnt how the game works at all.

Broken down and put very simply, an below average player can make 30 tackles a game and get to dummy half. An average player can even do it well. Nobody in RL can do what Rob Burrow does. A team can comfortably cover 30 tackles a game, they can send anyone to dummy half, nobody in RL could have scored the try Burrow did to break open the 2011 grand final.

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:44 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

That is a big part of the problem.

Is it? its been pretty successful up to now.

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:49 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Broken down and put very simply, an below average player can make 30 tackles a game and get to dummy half. An average player can even do it well. Nobody in RL can do what Rob Burrow does. A team can comfortably cover 30 tackles a game, they can send anyone to dummy half, nobody in RL could have scored the try Burrow did to break open the 2011 grand final.

Have you read anything i have put the last few pages?

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:56 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

That he might be, but he wasn't going into dummy half nearly all game when Matt Diskin was here. Defenders weren't having to shuffle in one because we had to defend two halves on one side. So yes Burrow might still play like Burrow, but our centres weren't having to do extra amounts of tackles, our props weren't missing a 40 tackle a game hooker defending next to them so you're again completely missing the point about the balance of the team. Other people's games have to change if he plays there, and not for the better.

Segeyaro might start 28/29 games next year and then get injured and Burrow might do the exact same thing as 2015 and come in and start the last few and we win a GF.....but if we have Burrow starting hooker week in week out for 30 odd weeks it won't lead to success. You point to a 3 game cameo to say it works but me and others are on about him playing there every week throughout a year and their's no evidence to support that working.

You seem to have this balance thing all confused. We balanced Burrow's lack of defence whether he played 9 or in the halves, because when Burrow played 9 we played an extra forward and moved Sinfield to half. When Burrow played half we played Sinfield at loose, losing a forward.

Other players didnt need to make extra tackles when Burrow played 9 instead of half. It didnt make a difference. We had Sinfield, Burrow and McGuire on the pitch. When we lost defence at 9 we gained at 13, when we gained it at 9 we lost it at 13. This idea that a hooker needs to make these tackles is just wrong.

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:00 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Have you read anything i have put the last few pages?

Yes, that you think we need a 'proper hooker'. We dont. Our improper hooker can and will do things that proper hookers can't and won't. Those things are usually the best things. The things that make you sit up and take notice, the things you remember.

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:04 pm  

Sinfield has gone now, we don't have that workhorse at 6 anymore those days are gone.

Also, i don't want my halfs doing 30/40 plus tackles a game i want them fresh and running the game not gassed.

Name me another team that has the hooker doing only a few tackles a game and hiding him on the fringes, because i can't think of one.

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:07 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Yes, that you think we need a 'proper hooker'. We dont. Our improper hooker can and will do things that proper hookers can't and won't. Those things are usually the best things. The things that make you sit up and take notice, the things you remember.

And AGAIN, i appreciate that. Burrow still has a role in the team like i have said, for the very reasons you marked out above. Impact sub suits him down to a tee now and may also prolong his career.

Re: Segayaro : Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:31 pm  

I'd see it more as a very experienced team managed to adapt very well at the back end of last year. But they looked absolutely gassed by the time of the GF, and I doubt very much that they could have done as well last year had we only had Burrow all year. I've rewatched the GF a few times and Watkins, who takes a lot of stick when he's not attacking well was absolutely immense. He was often covering 30 yards of the field on his own and having to make calls about whether to come in or stay out. He got it right almost every time. In fact one of the few times he was defending a bit wider was when Sinfield got skinned for Wigan's first try. Watkins' role was massively underrated, but he couldn't and shouldn't be expected to put in a shift like that every week.

Burrow's an impact player. If he doen't add impact he isn't worth a spot in the 17, never mind the starting lineup. He's a poor halfback and a very average starting hooker. Add in the issues with the defensive reorganisation and you have a problem over a season. That's why I'd be very keen for us to have a genuine alternative starting hooker even if Segeyaro stays.