Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:14 am  

loinertillidie wrote:

Since when did going through a transition whilst redeveloping the ground whilst still turning a profit denote the failings of a COO?

He's a CEO not a COO.

And what's this weeks lottery numbers? I ask because you obviously can see into the future. How else can anybody read a set of acounts that has not happend yet?

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:15 am  

Gotcha wrote:

2009 Leeds were Super League Champions
2010 Leeds finished 5th and reached the final eliminator
2011 ?? No chance of Leeds finishing higher than 5th.

Bradford went from Champions to 5th in 3 seasons, we look like doing it in 2.

So what?

You've not measured like for like - in case you haven't noticed, Bradford's free fall is still happening and they could soon hit the depths of SL. If it wasn't for Cru and Wakey's financial problems things could be a lot worse for them.

For once I agree with KS in that we're still better than the rest of the teams beneath us, including Bradford. I can't see us dropping off the pace anything like them.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:17 am  

kirkstaller wrote:

So what?

You've not measured like for like - in case you haven't noticed, Bradford's free fall is still happening and they could soon hit the depths of SL. If it wasn't for Cru and Wakey's financial problems things could be a lot worse for them.

So what? How more like for like do you want it.

The situation isn't are we the same as Bradford, christ would you find that acceptable? The question should be how do we stop ourselves doing a Bradford. We are already declining faster than they did initially, it's what happens in the next 3 years now as to whether we have done as bad.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:27 am  

Gotcha wrote:

So what? How more like for like do you want it.

The situation isn't are we the same as Bradford, christ would you find that acceptable? The question should be how do we stop ourselves doing a Bradford. We are already declining faster than they did initially, it's what happens in the next 3 years now as to whether we have done as bad.

In fairness, their decline was accelerated, by all accounts, by the disintegration of their business, which I don't believe we're facing.

I do agree that there needs to be evidence of re-building, otherwise it will be unclear what we're in a transition to. But I don't think we're on the same slippery slope as Bradford, whatever the on-field issues may be.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:32 am  

Him wrote:

I've got to disagree really, because while I accept the club has a duty of care to it's employees, it's duty of care only extends as far as employment law, H&S etc and it's contractual obligations to the employee. If we expect clubs to go further than that then the club should, rightly, expect something similar in return from the player. Also these aren't young 17 year olds who are just starting out, Burgess is 24 & Cross is 32. Both should be experienced in how clubs work by now and don't need protecting in some way from any naive decisions that might be made by younger lads.
Burgess has played in 11 out of 17 SL games this season and IIRC he missed a few of those through injury as well so he's hardly been totally overlooked all season (although I would agree the constant selection of Kirke is slightly confusing). If, as it appears, Burgess has thrown his toys out of the pram I would expect there to be some kind of disciplinary measure taken against him. Maybe in this case it's been non-selection for first team games. I don't expect him to be happy about not playing every week, that's good and shows some enthusiasm, but I do expect him to be professional about it, work his backside off in training and force his way back into the team.
It also comes nowhere close to constructive dismissal.

As for Cross, well until the details come out I have a bit more sympathy with the player on this one since as you say he's brought his family across the world, but there are rumours of disciplinary problems so I'll keep an open mind on this one until the truth comes out.

As for GH, I think the comments are a bit harsh to be honest. Considering no club in the modern era has had a period of dominance such as the one Leeds enjoyed don't you think it only natural for their to be a decline of some sort at some sort? I think it's just a cycle in sport, especially a salary capped one, and whilst I'm sure there are things GH has got wrong I think you're underestimatingthe difficulties of keeping a side consistently winning major trophies. Also if Warrington, Hudds & Wigan were as gash now as they were 5 years ago we'd be about 2nd or 3rd. Other teams have improved whilst we are going through a natural decline. Admittedly with a few poor decisions tacked on.

We must agree to disagree - I think a good employer considers it obligation to its employees as going well beyond statutory. Regarding Burgess we don't know what is meant by a disappointing - anything approaching rattles and cot are pure speculation. We have no idea how hard he is training and what has been said to him as to why he isn't being picked.

On Cross - there have been no rumours of discipline issues - so I think that is a red herring tbh

Any successful enterprise is constantly striving to maintain its position - they don't accept cycles as an excuse, Saints have been a challenging side throughout the whole of the SL era - they have won more trophies than Leeds during this time with a significantly lower revenue stream. For me it isn't about winning it is about being competitive - Saints have been competitive throughout the SL era.

What I find disappointing is the inability to build when the club has the opportunity - the appointment of McDermott is a backwards step compared to the previous coach IMO. The contract renewal of poorly performing players like Senior, Ali, Kirke, etc is hardly building for the future.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:33 am  

Gotcha you're a fan on a website going on like you're a shareholder in an annual meeting.

Get a grip on yourself man, it's pathetic.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:35 am  

tvoc wrote:

So that's how it works.

If only you'd been around 40+ years ago with that advice .... funny thing is I've never been able to set aside my feelings for the club I support.

I care. I'm bothered. It's not like I'm not bothered if we lose. It's just I'm a happy guy. I enjoy my life. Leeds is a big part of it and has been since before I could walk, but it's not the ONLY part of my life. I have other things to keep me happy if we lose. I just try to stay happy and get on with my life win or lose. The winning is a buzz, sure, but I try to push the losing straight out of my mind and get on with my weekend. I don't sulk all day Saturday if we got battered. Some think that makes me a bad fan. Up to them really.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:46 am  

loinertillidie wrote:

Gotcha you're a fan on a website going on like you're a shareholder in an annual meeting.

Get a grip on yourself man, it's pathetic.

What's pathetic is your constant obsession with me. I'm sorry but I'm married and not interested.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:50 am  

loinertillidie wrote:

Does Leeds Rugby turn a profit? Do many other clubs? Is success index linked to funds in the club? Is success and profit linked to numbers on turnstiles on matchday or is it also to do with the "Executive" side of the business?

Since when did going through a transition whilst redeveloping the ground whilst still turning a profit denote the failings of a COO?

I don't see anyone on here saying things haven't been good in the past, but with all businesses you cannot rest on your laurels. The question is can this team beat any of the top 4 sides when it matters - evidence this year would suggest not. Then the question is how will a disappointing season effect corporate revenue next year - as Bradford have shown the downward spiral can gather speed pretty quickly.

The other concern would be Caddick - given the virtual non existence of new business building does he have the liquidity to keep supporting the RU or will this also have to be supported by the Rhinos as has been the case recently.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:15 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I don't see anyone on here saying things haven't been good in the past, but with all businesses you cannot rest on your laurels. The question is can this team beat any of the top 4 sides when it matters - evidence this year would suggest not. Then the question is how will a disappointing season effect corporate revenue next year - as Bradford have shown the downward spiral can gather speed pretty quickly.

The other concern would be Caddick - given the virtual non existence of new business building does he have the liquidity to keep supporting the RU or will this also have to be supported by the Rhinos as has been the case recently.

Again, Bradford's downward spiral seems to have been led by the off-field business, which, as I understand it (hearsay, obviously, I won't pretend any inside knowledge) was well underway when they won the 2005 GF.

Again, I don't disagree that the on-field business is key and that it will ultimately affect the off-field business, but I think we may need a little perspective before we compare with Bradford.