: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:00 am  

DISA wrote:

But how can anyone sane possibly say he will be our second best winger? He is head and sholulders above any of the backs we have out there at present, and not just for these last 6 games.And that is not a critisism of any of the backs.

Firstly, if we're going to discuss this you need to add more clarity as you've contradicted yourself right there.

I was specific. I said these last 6 games which dates back to last season. What did you mean by "at present"?

Generally speaking, he is a vastly inferior wing man to Scott Donald. Overall he is a vastly inferior full back to Webb.

He is a vastly inferior centre to Senior and is actually a lot less experienced and achieved a lot less in the centres than Watkins and Gibson, though the jury is still out. Smith as a centre remains a hypothetical.

So, despite his rich vein of form these last six games when all the pieces are back he will remain our 2nd best wing man.

Would I like to see us retain him? Yes, he's shown his versatility and shown he can play at a very high level and he's the right age. Should we break the bank to retain him? No, not when there are better players than him in all the positions across the back line?

Now, that was a rational, well thought and constructed post. Feel free to rebut with a difference of opinion.

But don't question my sanity. I am not the one who invents conversations with Phil Daly.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:02 am  

tvoc wrote:

That will depend largely which wing he is given.

Donald is completely wasted on the right, IMO.

I agree and Mclennan needs to ditch this ploy because our defensive frailties aren't solved by the wingman. They're further in field. If we can't fix that might as well reap the rewards of Donald and Senior on the left flank.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:08 am  

G1 wrote:

I agree and Mclennan needs to ditch this ploy because our defensive frailties aren't solved by the wingman. They're further in field. If we can't fix that might as well reap the rewards of Donald and Senior on the left flank.

Most of Manlys breaks were made in the middle of the field last night, and those that were made down our right side were due to having a man over out wide from fantastic running further infield.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:26 am  

Tony Soprano wrote:

Most of Manlys breaks were made in the middle of the field last night, and those that were made down our right side were due to having a man over out wide from fantastic running further infield.

I for one am glad Leeds won't be playing Manly every week. The skill level was way above ours.

G1 wrote:

Would I like to see us retain him? Yes, he's shown his versatility and shown he can play at a very high level and he's the right age. Should we break the bank to retain him? No, not when there are better players than him in all the positions across the back line?

Smith is now a fully fledged international which should automatically move him up the pecking order in Leeds' much vaunted pay structure, if they wish to retain him. Despite that it seems almost certain that there will be more money on offer elsewhere. I for one have always been in Smith's corner and would be disappointed if he moves on but that's between him and the club and what will be, will be.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:27 am  

G1 wrote:

Firstly, if we're going to discuss this you need to add more clarity as you've contradicted yourself right there.

I was specific. I said these last 6 games which dates back to last season. What did you mean by "at present"?

Generally speaking, he is a vastly inferior wing man to Scott Donald. Overall he is a vastly inferior full back to Webb.

He is a vastly inferior centre to Senior and is actually a lot less experienced and achieved a lot less in the centres than Watkins and Gibson, though the jury is still out. Smith as a centre remains a hypothetical.

So, despite his rich vein of form these last six games when all the pieces are back he will remain our 2nd best wing man.

Would I like to see us retain him? Yes, he's shown his versatility and shown he can play at a very high level and he's the right age. Should we break the bank to retain him? No, not when there are better players than him in all the positions across the back line?

Now, that was a rational, well thought and constructed post. Feel free to rebut with a difference of opinion.

But don't question my sanity. I am not the one who invents conversations with Phil Daly.

Like I said, I dont want to get into arguments again about Smith.

However, he is not vastly inferior to Webb at fullback. Webb is a "proven" more consistent player, because Smith is much younger, that I agree. But Webb could have done nothing in those 6 games you mention that Smith has not done, and if anything Smith probably brought more to the table in a couple of those games.

Smith is certainly not inferior to Donald. That is a matter of opinion. But what Smith lacks in finishing speed he more than makes up for in the fact that unlike Donald he does not have a pea for a heart, and Smith is far better defensively, along with been far superior under a high ball. Thats where I struggle to see how he is second best, and that is not critisizing Donalds worth to the team, because he is a very good finisher.

As for Centre, you are probably right. There is no proof that Smith is a better overall centre than we have. He needs games there to prove that.

The only thing for certain is that Smith should be, and probably is, the first name on the team sheet when listing from 1 to 5, where ever that may be.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:27 am  

tvoc, as you were with the Scott Donald issue on the other thread, you're spot on again old lad.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:30 am  

lets not forget that webb has had a long and serious injury and he is still yet not fit.
there must be a slight doubt that he may not be the same player when he returns.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:47 am  

DISA wrote:

Like I said, I dont want to get into arguments again about Smith.

However, he is not vastly inferior to Webb at fullback. Webb is a "proven" more consistent player, because Smith is much younger, that I agree. But Webb could have done nothing in those 6 games you mention that Smith has not done, and if anything Smith probably brought more to the table in a couple of those games.

Smith is certainly not inferior to Donald. That is a matter of opinion. But what Smith lacks in finishing speed he more than makes up for in the fact that unlike Donald he does not have a pea for a heart, and Smith is far better defensively, along with been far superior under a high ball. Thats where I struggle to see how he is second best, and that is not criticizing Donalds worth to the team, because he is a very good finisher.

As for Centre, you are probably right. There is no proof that Smith is a better overall centre than we have. He needs games there to prove that.

The only thing for certain is that Smith should be, and probably is, the first name on the team sheet when listing from 1 to 5, where ever that may be.

Donald has a pea for a heart? Did you post any such views last year before Donald was asked to switch positions for the benefit of the team? Smith brings more to the table than Webb? Did you post any of this before Webb's injury allowed Smith a game in the number 1 jersey at the GF? IIRC all posts on here before the GF were that we were doomed because of Webb's injury. Please feel free to direct me to a post where you corrected people and said Smith would bring more to the table than Webb?

Of course, its' opinions and we're all entitled to them.

However, mine are based on more than just the last 6 games. Webb's injured and Donald has been switched to a different position to try and benefit the team at the detriment of his own form.

Yet whino revisionism has Smith better than both these players despite that fact that just one season ago he couldn't maintain a regular place in the team.

I think Smith is a great player. A valuable member of the team. I hope we retain him...........but get real people.

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:51 am  

Smith = Inverse Bailey

: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:53 am  

pokerface wrote:

If we get Webb back!!! I keep looking for an update on him but cant find one, any idea how much longer he is out for?

BTW Smith was Leeds MOM for me.

i thought senior was our MOM last night