: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:53 pm  

G1 wrote:

No. My understanding is it counts on the cap. This was purely a tax saving for the players benefit, making their salaries over here a much more attractive proposition for them.

To reiterate, there was nothing wrong in this at all. Its' just a loop-hole that is being closed.

There was also nothing wrong with deferring payments to keep inside the £1.6 miilion but it it didn't stop the "spirit of the cap" being brought into play.

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:06 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

There was also nothing wrong with deferring payments to keep inside the £1.6 miilion but it it didn't stop the "spirit of the cap" being brought into play.

The RFL presumably deemed it otherwise though when carried out on such a scale? Four point deduction wasn't it? Or was the four point the year after? Was that the largest penalty handed down in this country?

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:20 pm  

tvoc wrote:

The RFL presumably deemed it otherwise though when carried out on such a scale? Four point deduction wasn't it? Or was the four point the year after? Was that the largest penalty handed down in this country?

Lyndsay still managed to squirm out of the worse of it though because the new punishment's were being introduced but wigan avoided it because some paperwork hadn't been filled in properly.

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:30 pm  

rhinoms wrote:

Lyndsay still managed to squirm out of the worse of it though because the new punishment's were being introduced but wigan avoided it because some paperwork hadn't been filled in properly.

You can't really blame Lindsay for the RFL's sheer incompetence...... not this time at least.

The offshore payment thing could be an interesting development though and it will be worth watching how it plays out, especially if it impacts on the current seasons cap.

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:31 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

There was also nothing wrong with deferring payments to keep inside the £1.6 miilion

Erm, yes there was. Hence the penalty.

To reiterate, these schemes were about saving players tax. They had no effect on the cap whatsoever and were included within it.

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:33 pm  

G1 wrote:

Erm, yes there was. Hence the penalty.

To reiterate, these schemes were about saving players tax. They had no effect on the cap whatsoever and were included within it.

So there's nothing for the club's to worry about then G??

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:36 pm  

G1 wrote:

Erm, yes there was. Hence the penalty.

To reiterate, these schemes were about saving players tax. They had no effect on the cap whatsoever and were included within it.

If these offshore payments were now treated as nett couldn't they be grossed up for salary cap calculations?

I've no idea how any of it works, just idly speculating.

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:38 pm  

There isn't nothing to worry about regarding punishment from the RFL, the RFL are working with teams to help them avoid punishment from H M Revenue & Customs (Not the none existant Inland Revenue as the Gaurdian put it) The punishment will be regarding the payments of PAYE & NIC (pay as you earn & national insurance contrbutions).

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:42 pm  

kendall17 wrote:

There isn't nothing

Are you just covering your arse here?

: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:44 pm  

G1 wrote:

No. My understanding is it counts on the cap. This was purely a tax saving for the players benefit, making their salaries over here a much more attractive proposition for them.

To reiterate, there was nothing wrong in this at all. Its' just a loop-hole that is being closed.

Sorry Gareth but you have missed the key point here.

If (and I stress if) clubs are found by HMRC to have made payments to players free of (or at reduced rates of) tax or NIC, and IF it is determined that tax and NIC has been underdeducted and paid as a result, THEN the clubs will be required to account for that tax - plus interest and penalties - to HMRC. Likely going back six years.

That's bad enough.

But the really interesting issue is the effect on compliance with the salary cap. Because its the grossed-up amounts that would rank under the cap, not the net amounts actually paid. Which for clubs involved could well mean an immediate and retrospective salary cap breach for anything up to six years.

Its all hypothetical at this stage, as no-one has yet admitted to having had to settle with HMRC over this issue, but it does seem to be widely understood that HMRC HAVE been investigating these practices and that such practices HAVE been taking place.

The response of the RFL regarding retrospective SC breaches should it transpire that clubs DO have to settle with HMRC will be...interesting.