: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:04 pm  

I think bringing Buderus off was not a bad idea. Let Diskin have a go then throw him back on for the last quarter where he can cause damage against tired players.

As it was Wigan weren't tired because they were walking over us and we were giving them easy ground with penalties. And we couldnt have seen the injury coming.

Our discipline maybe an issue but our big problem is our pack.. No go forward at all.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:31 am  

rhinod4n wrote:

I think bringing Buderus off was not a bad idea. Let Diskin have a go then throw him back on for the last quarter where he can cause damage against tired players.

As it was Wigan weren't tired because they were walking over us and we were giving them easy ground with penalties. And we couldnt have seen the injury coming.

Our discipline maybe an issue but our big problem is our pack.. No go forward at all.

I disagree. For the first 30 mins on Friday, Leeds were making 60-80 meters per set, forwards were getting the ball on the gain line, and in their hands. For some reason this stopped around 30mins and we went back to very slow and inaccurate distribution from the ruck, and players not getting the ball near the gain line.

Not sure what changed though

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:45 am  

with regards to worral i just dont think he is good enough like of size strength etc..

i can understand if we had a winger on the bench and did not play but not a 2nd row. Especially as we were down to only 3 subs. If bm does not think he is good enough he should not be in the squad

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:58 am  

I understand the general point you're making and don't disagree with it at all but on this part specifically

leicester_rhino wrote:

I disagree. For the first 30 mins on Friday, Leeds were making 60-80 meters per set

Presumably that was on the sets they managed to complete and get to a kick.

Just a pity there weren't more of them. Leeds completed two out of their opening six sets in the first twelve minutes. They reached half time completing only ten from seventeen (59%) and were still leading.

Just how bad were they in the second half?

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:33 pm  

I was waiting for the "it's all Diskins fault" brigade to turn up. Apparently not having Buderus on the field affects everyone elses performance to such a degree that the whole team falls apart. Players on completely the opposite side of the pitch lose the ability to tackle or catch just because there's someone different at dummy half.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:22 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

I was waiting for the "it's all Diskins fault" brigade to turn up. Apparently not having Buderus on the field affects everyone elses performance to such a degree that the whole team falls apart. Players on completely the opposite side of the pitch lose the ability to tackle or catch just because there's someone different at dummy half.

I don't put it down to being Diskins fault. But buderus is better, and guides the team around a lot better, and is able to send the ball at speed and accuracy to a player in a good position to make ground.

The hooker is one of the most important positions in the game, and the distribution from dummy half is vital to teams getting a good basis to attack from. If forwards, or runners in general aren't certain that they will get good ball, that is easy to take, they will run slower, and further behind the gain line, to allow time to adjust to a poor pass.

As such, when diskin is on, we don't seem to get a roll on quite so easily, which is a perpetuating situation. Players run slower and further from the gain line, and don't hit the line with as much momentum, and so get more dominated in the tackle, meaning a slower play of the ball, and less momentum.

Its only small margins on a tackle by tackle basis, but 10m can make a lot of difference when kicking on the last, as can the speed at which the ball is given to the kicker, suddenly you have a kick that is down the fullback's throat and tackle 1 in on the 30 or 40m line, and you're soon under pressure as a team.

Basically, a game of rugby isn't a series of one off events, but a series of events which occur on the back of the previous one. A poor set clearing your lines, often leads to your defence being put uinder more pressure, and more likely to miss a tackle or give a penalty away.

Its not an excuse for the whole team to fall apart however, and all palyers need to take responsibility for their own game, but problems and percieved weaknesses can be traced a lot further back than who missed the tackle or dropped the ball

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:23 pm  

tvoc wrote:

I understand the general point you're making and don't disagree with it at all but on this part specifically



Presumably that was on the sets they managed to complete and get to a kick.

Just a pity there weren't more of them. Leeds completed two out of their opening six sets in the first twelve minutes. They reached half time completing only ten from seventeen (59%) and were still leading.

Just how bad were they in the second half?

Leeds did fail with a lot of sets on friday, but we have played that sort of game for karge parts of the last 5 years.

There were times on Friday, when we were making easily twice the meters of Wigan on each set, and they were hanging on

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:54 pm  

One wonders how the team overcame Diskin's poor distribution en route to 3 championships.

One wonders what peacock was on when he confirmed the point (in his Biog) Leicester is making about the importance of dummy half distribution and went on to say Diskin was one of the best he'd played off.

Is Diskin as good as Buderus at this? Of course not, who is in this comp? Is Diskin top quality and can the team achieve success with his at rake? Well, on the basis of 2004, 2007 and 2008 then of course they can.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:07 pm  

Can't fault diskin as british hookers go, but buderus is a different proposition, is the quickest thinker, has better ball handling skills than both half backs, and makes more tackles than 90% of his team mates, test & origin hooker & captain countless times, rotation hooker for leeds?????, could have been sat having a rest with 2 points in the bag when he got injured, Damn right bluey (or whoever tells him diskin should play) has missed a trick.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:15 pm  

G1 wrote:

One wonders how the team overcame Diskin's poor distribution en route to 3 championships.

One wonders what peacock was on when he confirmed the point (in his Biog) Leicester is making about the importance of dummy half distribution and went on to say Diskin was one of the best he'd played off.

Is Diskin as good as Buderus at this? Of course not, who is in this comp? Is Diskin top quality and can the team achieve success with his at rake? Well, on the basis of 2004, 2007 and 2008 then of course they can.

Whilst I dont dissagree with any of what you have put there, because it is all true.

But the bit failing to acknowledge here is that the squad was better throughout those championship wins, and the competition not as good. Now things have changed and Buderus gave us an edge, an edge that we don't have with Diskin.

Wether that stops us winning again, hopefully not and we will just have to see come October.