Re: Unsackable Mac : Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:56 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

We saw with McClennen and McDermott that hiring a guy to be an assistant with the view of taking over in 12 months isn't necessarily the smoothest planning. Whilst you might want the decision out of his hands he surely has to have a significant say on whose is on his coaching team, it's got to be someone he can gel with in terms of ideas and be on a similar wavelength too otherwise it'd just be a mess.

IF the club were appointing to be his successor, then he should have no say in the assistant. If it is purely to assist him with no long term plan, then yes I agree with what you said.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:03 pm  

Fred_Pickup wrote:

I wasn't calling for Mac to be sacked.
Just pointing out the fact that a ready-made caretaker is not on hand if he should leave (sacked / ill-health). Agreed they should look for the right man rather than rush in and get a yes man.
Perhaps badly expressed, but my main concern is the lack of a second opinion from someone who has clout in the organisation. As Backwooodsman said, an offensive coach for the threequarters may inject some alternative creativity.
I accept that all teams are very much level pegging at present due to injuries or loss of form and expect we will be there or thereabouts, around top 4 at the end of the normal season if Sinfield is not confirmed as a long term absentee.

And I and most others agree that the attack needs to improve and look more threatening and creative.

It's worth remember though that for all the talk of our attack being poor and our defence currently being very poor (and lacking structure all year apparently) we have the joint fewest defeats in SL at the moment and whereas some of Saints' loses have been quite heavy are losing margins are very fine.....

Lost by 2 points
Home to Hudds
Away to Wakey

Lost by 4 points
Magic vs Wigan
Away at Saints

Lost by 18 points
Away to Wire

So 4 of those 5 defeats are single score defeats, the first three mentioned we actually matched the opposition for tries but fell sort due to goal kicking.

Only the Warrington game we've not had a chance to win approaching the final minutes, that's 1 match out of 22 played this year, think some underestimate how good a stat that is, and even when we've been beaten, teams only just manage it. So whilst we aren't getting everything right, we aren't getting things as wrong as some perhaps think.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:18 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

IF the club were appointing to be his successor, then he should have no say in the assistant.

Whilst correct that he wouldn't need to have a say in it I was never a fan of that idea when it was planned for McDermott to come in and be McClennen's assistant for a year in 2011 (and I imagine was to nobodies surprise really when McClennen left early) and it's not a route I liked to see try and be repeated....seems too messy.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:32 pm  

Fred_Pickup wrote:

I wasn't calling for Mac to be sacked.
Just pointing out the fact that a ready-made caretaker is not on hand if he should leave (sacked / ill-health). Agreed they should look for the right man rather than rush in and get a yes man.
Perhaps badly expressed, but my main concern is the lack of a second opinion from someone who has clout in the organisation. As Backwooodsman said, an offensive coach for the threequarters may inject some alternative creativity.
I accept that all teams are very much level pegging at present due to injuries or loss of form and expect we will be there or thereabouts, around top 4 at the end of the normal season if Sinfield is not confirmed as a long term absentee.

Both Chris Plume and Jason Davidson have significant clout at the club.

I don't see the need for an offensive coach, we have plenty of offensive experience in Sinfield, McGuire & Burrow. I can't think of many coaches around with more experience than them.

To be honest I think we're just going through a period of poor form coupled with a lot of injuries.
I think we're still weak at prop beyond Peacock & Leuluai, and that the halves have only been good in patches this season. But when we get Sinfield & Burrow back I think that will help tremendously. Also Ablett & Hardaker are very important to our attack.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:35 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

I agree with all this. However, would respectfully add that I do think the same applies to a lot of other coaches who have actually bitten the bullitt.

Truth is, IF he fails this year, I can see it taken out of his hands and changes will be made by the club. Those changes may only include hand picking themselves a fulltime assistant, or make a more long term decision of planning new coach for at the end of 2015.

I agree with that. I also think coaches in general are unfairly sacked/criticised when teams perform poorly and unduly praised when teams perform well. There are exceptions to this obviously where a new coach can have an impact and where some coaches excel in certain circumstances.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:41 am  

Him wrote:

Both Chris Plume and Jason Davidson have significant clout at the club.

I don't see the need for an offensive coach, we have plenty of offensive experience in Sinfield, McGuire & Burrow. I can't think of many coaches around with more experience than them.

To be honest I think we're just going through a period of poor form coupled with a lot of injuries.
I think we're still weak at prop beyond Peacock & Leuluai, and that the halves have only been good in patches this season. But when we get Sinfield & Burrow back I think that will help tremendously. Also Ablett & Hardaker are very important to our attack.

Spot on.

Our slump has nothing to do with not having an assistant coach or a lack of structures. It has everything to do with injuries and loss of form.

Form is an elusive thing and when it turns bad there is no simple cure and there is not much the coaches can do about it. Players often try too hard to turn around a spell of bad form and all it does is prolong it. You play best when relaxed and confident and not when you are aware of how bad you have been or when you can hear the crowd getting at you. When several players lose form together it makes the whole team look poor.

Sinfield is an example of a player who has been so consistent and perhaps has only lost form once or twice in his whole career. But loss of form does not suddenly make an outstanding player a bad one. Take Andy Murray who sailed through the first week of Wimbledon playing tremendous tennis. A couple of days later his shot timing and foot positions were all wrong and he lost in three straight sets. It happens to the best in all sports. Add to this several injuries and you have the position Leeds are in now.

Not a time to lay blame on the coach or right-off proven class players IMO. The players and coaches will be working so hard to correct the errors and I believe as this slump has continued we are one game nearer the return of key injured players and also one game nearer a return to form.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:23 pm  

Whilst I do not want Mac to be fired I feel we are not getting the best out of our threequarter line. Which in my opinion is the best in super league.
Hence my feeling we would benefit with the use of a dedicated offense coach,especially as we are rapidly coming to the business end of the season.
If we win any kind of silverware I will have been proved wrong and will be more than happy to admit so.
Even the challenge cup would in my opinion be classed as a success story.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:12 pm  

A coach with any pride would have walked after Friday's shambolic performance against a team who let's face it are basically a collection of everyone else's cast-offs including several of Leeds' own - one which Leeds have destroyed twice previously this season.

His pre-match dressing-room instruction to Bailey appeared to consist of which combination of punches to throw and he had a smile on his face before being interviewed on the pitch post-match. Hardly the actions or appearance of a man under any pressure (internally) at work.

It would presumably cost money to replace our distinctly average (IMO) head coach therefore I'd rate his job among the safest in Super League.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:52 pm  

Him wrote:

Both Chris Plume and Jason Davidson have significant clout at the club.

I don't see the need for an offensive coach, we have plenty of offensive experience in Sinfield, McGuire & Burrow. I can't think of many coaches around with more experience than them.

To be honest I think we're just going through a period of poor form coupled with a lot of injuries.
I think we're still weak at prop beyond Peacock & Leuluai, and that the halves have only been good in patches this season. But when we get Sinfield & Burrow back I think that will help tremendously. Also Ablett & Hardaker are very important to our attack.

Plume and davidson may as you say have clout at the club, but have they got the skill and talent. We can take davidson out of the equation as he is the fitness and condition trainer. Which on balance we seem to be fit enough so no complaints there.
So that leaves us with plume, looking at his track record on the rhinos site he has no experience of top level coaching.
Surely it must benefit Mac to have some some fresh thinking about the place, even if it just takes a bit of pressure from his shoulders.
It might be that he does not want anybody else,pehraps he feels he will succeed on his own. Once again nobody on this site at the moment is right or wrong until the season end. When we will discover who wins the silverware .
Obviously the wire game is hugely important , this as a benchmark as to our form this season as to performing in must win games. I see in the yorkshire post JP has said he is sick and tired of losing close games this season. So the players are obviously feeling frustrated.

Re: Unsackable Mac : Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:59 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

And I and most others agree that the attack needs to improve and look more threatening and creative.

It's worth remember though that for all the talk of our attack being poor and our defence currently being very poor (and lacking structure all year apparently) we have the joint fewest defeats in SL at the moment and whereas some of Saints' loses have been quite heavy are losing margins are very fine.....

Lost by 2 points
Home to Hudds
Away to Wakey

Lost by 4 points
Magic vs Wigan
Away at Saints

Lost by 18 points
Away to Wire

So 4 of those 5 defeats are single score defeats, the first three mentioned we actually matched the opposition for tries but fell sort due to goal kicking.

Only the Warrington game we've not had a chance to win approaching the final minutes, that's 1 match out of 22 played this year, think some underestimate how good a stat that is, and even when we've been beaten, teams only just manage it. So whilst we aren't getting everything right, we aren't getting things as wrong as some perhaps think.

THIS

It is madness that people are comparing us negqatively to Saints (and their 40 point margin shellackings) or Wigan (shipping nearly 40 points to Wakey and Cas)

We have a perfect storm of poor form & injuries, and but for goalkicks & the VR feeling slightly saner, we'd have beaten both Wakefield & Huddersfield.

Quit whining and get behind the team.