Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:28 am  

Gotcha wrote: Just been at a game this morning,nand the stories I have heard within the club are frightening, and far worse than envisaged. And I am talking about from someone within the club. Ridiculous how we have got to this. Gotcha was right, again. Just like he always is. The story's finally been up on the Rhinos website. http://www.therhinos.co.uk/2017/08/09/rhinos-remain-profitable-super-league-club-despite-tough-season/ It's ridiculous how we have got to this.

Gotcha wrote: Just been at a game this morning,nand the stories I have heard within the club are frightening, and far worse than envisaged. And I am talking about from someone within the club. Ridiculous how we have got to this. Gotcha was right, again. Just like he always is. The story's finally been up on the Rhinos website. http://www.therhinos.co.uk/2017/08/09/rhinos-remain-profitable-super-league-club-despite-tough-season/ It's ridiculous how we have got to this.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:18 am  

loiner81 wrote: Gotcha was right, again. Just like he always is. The story's finally been up on the Rhinos website. http://www.therhinos.co.uk/2017/08/09/rhinos-remain-profitable-super-league-club-despite-tough-season/ It's ridiculous how we have got to this. It depends on how you view a 13.5% drop in revenue and a 76% drop in profitability?

loiner81 wrote: Gotcha was right, again. Just like he always is. The story's finally been up on the Rhinos website. http://www.therhinos.co.uk/2017/08/09/rhinos-remain-profitable-super-league-club-despite-tough-season/ It's ridiculous how we have got to this. It depends on how you view a 13.5% drop in revenue and a 76% drop in profitability?

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:40 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

It depends on how you view a 13.5% drop in revenue and a 76% drop in profitability?

Or it also depends whether you were looking at finances or what I was actually talking about when put that. Not really worth discussing it either way with a poor message board troll though. But your point still highlights the difference between spin and reality.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:07 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

It depends on how you view a 13.5% drop in revenue and a 76% drop in profitability?

I view it like this. Going from treble winners to the middle 8s with no finals and only seeing a 13.5% drop in revenue is pretty amazing i'd say.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:08 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Or it also depends whether you were looking at finances or what I was actually talking about when put that.

Of course it wasn't about finances when put that.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:13 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Or it also depends whether you were looking at finances or what I was actually talking about when put that. Not really worth discussing it either way with a poor message board troll though. But your point still highlights the difference between spin and reality.

What the numbers show is how dependent the bottom line is on continued success - the bit that is difficult to quantify is how much the 2016 result was boosted by the success in 2015 e.g. ST sales/Corporate etc.

What is the current run rate/underlying position regarding revenue and profitability. I suppose this will become more obvious in twelve month's time when 2017 results are published. It should be noted the results did include 367k of exceptionals primarily relating to the flood at Kirkstall most of which was insured. On a positive the club has cash of £2.5m

It could have been a lot worse - shows the club is well run financially but the key is performance on the field.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:20 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What the numbers show is how dependent the bottom line is on continued success - the bit that is difficult to quantify is how much the 2016 result was boosted by the success in 2015 e.g. ST sales/Corporate etc.

13.5% of turnover is actually a pretty huge amount though i would think that a significant part of that is down to prize money rather than anything the club does as a business. a 4% fall in gate receipts is not good.

And as for the quantification of how much 2016 was boosted by the success of 2015, we can get a good idea of that by comparing 2017 to 2016. I dont think we will see a big difference. Those figures have largely been pretty stable for a few years and we havent seen huge changes in attendances between years.

The important takeaway should be how stable the business is. There is a large buffer between where the club is and even losses, never mind unsustainable or troubling ones. Terrible year on the field, one off disruption, large maintenance costs for the southstand (soon to disappear) and the club still made £371k

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:55 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

13.5% of turnover is actually a pretty huge amount though i would think that a significant part of that is down to prize money rather than anything the club does as a business. a 4% fall in gate receipts is not good.

And as for the quantification of how much 2016 was boosted by the success of 2015, we can get a good idea of that by comparing 2017 to 2016. I dont think we will see a big difference. Those figures have largely been pretty stable for a few years and we havent seen huge changes in attendances between years.

The important takeaway should be how stable the business is. There is a large buffer between where the club is and even losses, never mind unsustainable or troubling ones. Terrible year on the field, one off disruption, large maintenance costs for the southstand (soon to disappear) and the club still made £371k

What the results indicate me is this business has significant fixed costs that would be difficult to reduce if the revenues dropped. Players/coaches/medical salaries other wage costs, ground maintenance inc. training facilities. It wouldn't take a much of a drop in revenue to see the bottom significantly impacted.

EBIT of 2.8% represents a marginal business - yes it was a bad year and it does look like they have dumped a load of bad news into the results - no bad thing. The club still has £2.5m of cash - how much of that will be required for the new development who knows

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:04 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What the results indicate me is this business has significant fixed costs that would be difficult to reduce if the revenues dropped. Players/coaches/medical salaries other wage costs, ground maintenance inc. training facilities. It wouldn't take a much of a drop in revenue to see the bottom significantly impacted.

EBIT of 2.8% represents a marginal business - yes it was a bad year and it does look like they have dumped a load of bad news into the results - no bad thing. The club still has £2.5m of cash - how much of that will be required for the new development who knows

Doesn't your 1st paragraph apply to every club in SL?

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:34 am  

The Magic Rat wrote:

Doesn't your 1st paragraph apply to every club in SL?

Not just in SL but every sports club in the world. In the same way as every sports club in the world experiences in general an increase in revenues when they are successful and a decrease when they aren't.

What the figures show, especially when you look at the accounts, is that the club has solid financial foundations and can withstand seasons like 2016 relatively easily. In Rugby League that is rare and should be a source of comfort to Leeds fans in my opinion.