Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:26 am  

Doesn't really matter what the stats say the Pack overall were well beaten.
Ward was the only one who looked like having the quality we need with Hurrell being over used coming out of our end.
Merrin looked like a BR trying to gain match fitness but being wasted at Prop.
The forwards we have available are definitely Quantity over Quality and will cost us this year.
Hopefully Furner starts integrating the younger lads into the Team asap.

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:37 am  

Agree the young lads need some game time but from a developmental POV not sure how much they gain from playing in that kind of game. We were well beaten by a side who have a coach in place big players all over the pitch and have been building even before that coach arrived.

I think as the season goes in the young lads will get some games and be phased in, I just worry we don’t pin all the hopes ok them as it isn’t fair to expect an 18/19/20 year old or group of them to step into a beaten pack and suddenly turn it around.

This has always been a rebuild and it will take 2-4 years. Everybody talks about getting two big meter making props and a wrecking ball back rower. I agree we need those but where or who do people think we should have signed who we didn’t? Those players were not available this off season, if they were I think we would have signed them.

Next year we have the following players off contract (I think):
Walters
Parcell
Ormondroyd
Mullally
JJB
Ferres
Donaldson
Dwyer

Out of those I would only retain Dwyer.

We should also shed the following:

Ablett
Cuthbertson
Lilley
Peteru
Sutcliffe

That gives you cap to get 2 big props and a gain line breaking back rower, probably a decent winger as well.

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:47 am  

Lprhino wrote:

Agree the young lads need some game time but from a developmental POV not sure how much they gain from playing in that kind of game. We were well beaten by a side who have a coach in place big players all over the pitch and have been building even before that coach arrived.

I think as the season goes in the young lads will get some games and be phased in, I just worry we don’t pin all the hopes ok them as it isn’t fair to expect an 18/19/20 year old or group of them to step into a beaten pack and suddenly turn it around.

This has always been a rebuild and it will take 2-4 years. Everybody talks about getting two big meter making props and a wrecking ball back rower. I agree we need those but where or who do people think we should have signed who we didn’t? Those players were not available this off season, if they were I think we would have signed them.

Next year we have the following players off contract (I think):
Walters
Parcell
Ormondroyd
Mullally
JJB
Ferres
Donaldson
Dwyer

Out of those I would only retain Dwyer.

We should also shed the following:

Ablett
Cuthbertson
Lilley
Peteru
Sutcliffe

That gives you cap to get 2 big props and a gain line breaking back rower, probably a decent winger as well.

How are you gonna shed contracted players?

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:06 am  

Lprhino wrote:

Agree the young lads need some game time but from a developmental POV not sure how much they gain from playing in that kind of game. We were well beaten by a side who have a coach in place big players all over the pitch and have been building even before that coach arrived.

I think as the season goes in the young lads will get some games and be phased in, I just worry we don’t pin all the hopes ok them as it isn’t fair to expect an 18/19/20 year old or group of them to step into a beaten pack and suddenly turn it around.

This has always been a rebuild and it will take 2-4 years. Everybody talks about getting two big meter making props and a wrecking ball back rower. I agree we need those but where or who do people think we should have signed who we didn’t? Those players were not available this off season, if they were I think we would have signed them.

Next year we have the following players off contract (I think):
Walters
Parcell
Ormondroyd
Mullally
JJB
Ferres
Donaldson
Dwyer

Out of those I would only retain Dwyer.

We should also shed the following:

Ablett
Cuthbertson
Lilley
Peteru
Sutcliffe

That gives you cap to get 2 big props and a gain line breaking back rower, probably a decent winger as well.

I can certainly see us losing 5-10 players from the squad for next year. I think we almost have the young props to solve our issues within 3 years but we need something different to bolster in the meantime.
I’m happy with a back row of Merrin, Ward, Smith with one or two players in reserve (Trout is only a year or two away, maybe. If he fills out he’s going to be a cracking player).
Sutcliffe is still a bit of an enigma. Talented lad but he will not keep his place at Leeds if he doesn’t improve his defence. Honestly I was a bit worried about Lolohea’s defence but I’m putting that down to cold, getting used to positioning, playing behind a beaten pack etc.
Bottom line is that the club does not have the freedom to make all the changes it might like because of commitments on contract etc.

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:14 am  

Lprhino wrote:

snip

I'd agree with pretty much all of that. If we lose only those out of contract at the end of this season, minus Dwyer who we will most likely keep until Johnson is ready, that will free up £450-500k of cap. Plenty for three very good players with the other spots being taken by the kids who will be one year more matured with hopefully a few games under their belts.

I'd be happy to see the others you mentioned leave too, but don't see how it can be done unless they themselves want to go.

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:55 am  

I can see why a comparison is raised with us (Wire) last season, new coach, new players, new style etc. The difference is though in the season before we had any number of decent players underperforming under TS (for whatever reason). When you look at all the class and experience you have lost over the last few seasons a period of adjustment is inevitable. Don’t think it will be too long before you see improvement though.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:07 am  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

How are you gonna shed contracted players?

pay them off, warrington did with a few players in 2015, chris bridge and joel monaghan were paid off with a 2 years/ a year left on their contracts. we felt at the time that the squad needed an overhaul going into 2016.

But you know Warrington, What salary cap ?

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:23 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

pay them off, warrington did with a few players in 2015, chris bridge and joel monaghan were paid off with a 2 years/ a year left on their contracts. we felt at the time that the squad needed an overhaul going into 2016.

But you know Warrington, What salary cap ?

Well, wherever we can I think we need to make final decisions on the future of about half our squad by the end of this season, rip the plaster off and then get moving forward again. It's easy for us speccies to demand change when we don't see the players behind the scenes, but we can't carry on keeping a squad of nice Championship standard players and expected to get much out of a SL season. The fringe players still have an opportunity to train hard and stake a claim for a place beyond 2019.

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:09 am  

Its not a case of throwing the younger lads in then expecting an instant turn around.
Its about getting minutes into them when the pressure is at its lowest.
Ward aside Cam Smith is better than any other BR we had playing.
Then Holroyd could come in for bench spot freeing Merrin up for a BR spot instead of Sutcliffe

Re: SL RD 1 | Warrington Wolves (A) : Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:30 am  

Warrington will do what they did to us and by more to a few teams this season at home, they look like a quality outfit again this year.

I think it will take 6-8 games in before we can realistically see how we are faring as a team and squad. As well as the new players it will take Furner time to adapt to coaching in SL. Throwing kids in at this point is knee jerk and will do more harm than good.

For me though we need to play Merrin either at Loose or Back Row, flogging him at prop does him and the team no favours, he can play 80 minutes but not at prop. I hope Crosby is fit for next week.

Walker looks to have bulked up a fair bit and look strong in collision! And it will take Watkins a bit of time to get back into full swing

Anyway for Wigan I'd go

Walker
Briscoe
Watkins
Hurrell
Handley
Tui
Myler
Cuthbertson
Parcell
Crosby
Ward
Smith
Merrin

Dwyer
Sutcliffe/Donaldson
Singleton
Oledski


We are definitely light in the pack as everyone knows but I think we will need to play around them like saints did on Thursday