Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:44 am  

Going nowhere under him, but GH wont admit the mistake after making such a big deal about getting this appointment right at the time.

Soft, weak, dumb, short cut rugby, the exact opposite of proven successful rugby league.

Despite the mental gymnastics on here, our best forward last year was Walters, and We've replaced him with Goudemond, our best back last year was Macdonald, we've replaced him with Momorovski, both huge downgrades. Frawley is just as useless as most of us knew he was and resigning Fusitua has proved just as stupid as most of us knew it would be.

Cant remember which famous coach said ' if you start listening to the fans, you will soon be sat with them' true 99% of the time, Leeds would actually be better off if they listened to the sensible ones,our decision making has been so poor

Unfortunately, the Soft, weak, dumb, shortcut rugby dosnt just stop with the first team, we're going to waste another crop of talented players further down if we dont buck our ideas up

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:56 am  

It was Wayne Bennett, and he's right more often than he's wrong.

We need to be sounding out serious candidates and getting our house in order for a change at the end of this year if not sooner. I'm also concerned about the progress of the kids, perhaps more so than the next couple of years of first team. It would be criminal if we wasted this crop of kids that are on their way through by not giving them the best possible chance to lead us into a new era of success.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:22 am  

To be honest, I am quite concerned that the longer he stays, the more damage he will cause.

We are clearly short of a few good forwards, however, I remain of the view that with the right coach, this team is good enough to be in the top 4.

I could be wrong here as I don't watch Huddersfield or the players overly much, however, I always feel like Yates / Wilson would be the type of players we need. Go about their business quietly and get the job done without being mega earners.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:51 am  

We don't control the development of players. A club provides an environment within which players can thrive and achieve their potential. Ultimately it is the player themselves, always, who decides to work hard at training, to work hard at their diet, to be disciplined and give their best. It is ultimately up to the players to find the advice and help they need.

Leeds provides a coaching team, nutritionalists, and some of the best training facilities in the UK game.

Sometimes a player will really kick on from showing promise at junior level and sometimes not, it's the way of things. Even in the golden era, the vast majority of juniors fell by the wayside and never cemented a place in first grade.

How many players in the Leeds 17 are home grown? And you're looking at around a decade of youth development work there. I think the answer is 6 players. Since well before Rohan Smith's time.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:55 am  

KaeruJim wrote:

I could coach Penrith to spank most super league clubs.

Equally a great coach gets a team realising its potential.

Leeds need both better players and a first rate coach. Too often we have signed other club’s cast-offs or mid-table players. Most of the players who’ve left Leeds have ended up either in Champ or lower table SL clubs - so many examples of this.

Players who are bench players at other top clubs become starters for us.

Again it’s not rocket science. We need almost first grade NRL quality at prop and second row IMO to continue our progression, and possibly on the wing too. Not sure where we are at with Marquees, assume Newman is one and Croft.

A real good prop will take loads of pressure off Mik and Tom in particular. A marquee second row is good value because they are likely to play 80 mins. We have four/five back rowers who are just too small whereas we need just one big ugly horrible thing.

This is an interesting post. The coach and the players are catch 22 - better the coach the better the players they attract. It is no shock to anyone that the NRL players we attract can't get regular games in the NRL. Is Fasituia going to play ever again - how did he get a three year contract?

The idea that we could attract a top NRL forward with a coach like Smith is laughable. They way we treated Furner doesn't look good - if you were a top coach would you take a chance on a club like Leeds? Has Smith even moved his family here? Compare how Saints select and look after overseas coaches?

The culture looks all wrong - no honesty or belief - this is both a personal and coaching issue - in any team culture each participant needs to do his job to the best of his ability - there isn't a player who can look in the mirror and say honestly I am giving my best.

The players don't look fit/strong - again compare to Saints/Wigan/Catalans - physically they look second rate. Those that go to a gym know you can give it what you have or just go through the motions - too many going through the motions.

GH has been a superb CEO but its time for a change in the whole rugby set up - it just isn't working - a major reset needs to happen. The idea that JJB is anywhere near the top of an elite sports team should be a major concern to all stakeholders.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:56 am  

Of course the players themselves are the ones ultimately responsible for their own development, I don't think anyone would argue against this, but the club are responsible for providing the best possible environment for that to happen and the biggest factor here is coaching. Just like the player can be negligent if they don't work hard enough or have the right attitude, the club can be negligent if they don't provide the best possible coaching or facilities.

Individually the players benefit from the standards that are set and their achievements against them, but collectively the club benefits far more by having the right people in the coaching and support structure that realise the potential of the group. This is where I'm shining the torch, are we providing the best possible coaching for the kids coming through? I'm mindful that mattsrhinos1978 is more knowledgeable here than I am (and I suspect probably you too) of the current detailed situation. Like you (I suspect), I'd see the immediate situation is the responsibility of the coaches, but the longer term responsibility if that of the CEO.

Re: Rowley : Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:01 am  

Jack Burton wrote:

Sezer's main issue at Leeds wasn't that he was playing badly at Leeds. It was that he was barely playing at all.

It’s all irrelevant now. Croft a quality player. Let’s get some speed around him and dummy runners….….

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:12 am  

Sport is cyclical anyway, and we have no right to win just because we are a big club.

I think my issues are with the penny pinching and the half arsing. I'm sure Leeds struggled genuinely having COVID at the same time as new stadium development, it wasn't great timing for sure. However I have said before, I think the whole strategic approach to maintaining success after the Goldens was just all wrong. Wrong signings, wrong coaches, bad results.

I'm hoping with a new major sponsor, it wasn't just about making a couple of big signings in Ackers and Croft. We look like we need 2-3 more in that mould, plus maybe some further investment in coaching too.

For me, personally, I want to see how to side goes over the next 4-5 games. If we're still stuttering I'll consider joining the Smith Out crew, but I'm still thinking we're a top-6 side with a chance of finding some form later in the year and even challenging in the play-offs.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:19 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

Of course the players themselves are the ones ultimately responsible for their own development, I don't think anyone would argue against this, but the club are responsible for providing the best possible environment for that to happen and the biggest factor here is coaching. Just like the player can be negligent if they don't work hard enough or have the right attitude, the club can be negligent if they don't provide the best possible coaching or facilities.

Individually the players benefit from the standards that are set and their achievements against them, but collectively the club benefits far more by having the right people in the coaching and support structure that realise the potential of the group. This is where I'm shining the torch, are we providing the best possible coaching for the kids coming through? I'm mindful that mattsrhinos1978 is more knowledgeable here than I am (and I suspect probably you too) of the current detailed situation. Like you (I suspect), I'd see the immediate situation is the responsibility of the coaches, but the longer term responsibility if that of the CEO.

I agree with all the above - the facilities at Leeds seem to be at the correct level - Kirkstall has been used by numerous international teams in the past. It is obvious to all the coaching shortcomings - but if GH can't attract anything better what do you do? If good assistants in the NRL are advised not to move GH's options are limited, hence Smith. He offered Peter Green who sadly declined. There isn't an English coach - Peat apart - that I would have at Leeds so where do you go?

For me this is a development issue - we should have developed a coach that was ready to take the team on - Burrow perhaps - but he was in the earliest stages of his development. This inability to develop from within isn't a Smith issue this is a Leeds issue.

The inner workings of the rugby side of the business needs a complete overhaul to compete with the best in SL.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:23 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

Of course the players themselves are the ones ultimately responsible for their own development, I don't think anyone would argue against this, but the club are responsible for providing the best possible environment for that to happen and the biggest factor here is coaching. Just like the player can be negligent if they don't work hard enough or have the right attitude, the club can be negligent if they don't provide the best possible coaching or facilities.

Individually the players benefit from the standards that are set and their achievements against them, but collectively the club benefits far more by having the right people in the coaching and support structure that realise the potential of the group. This is where I'm shining the torch, are we providing the best possible coaching for the kids coming through? I'm mindful that mattsrhinos1978 is more knowledgeable here than I am (and I suspect probably you too) of the current detailed situation. Like you (I suspect), I'd see the immediate situation is the responsibility of the coaches, but the longer term responsibility if that of the CEO.

Yep 100% Matts is the guru here, I just try to watch some games.

But this is kindof my point, most of us, maybe not even Matts, is truly close enough to the club and the players to know whether the coaching and support is great or not. We see the results on the field of course. I'm not convinced myself about playing sides which are too young, and not trying to win fixtures with the best sides we can put out at each age group - there are arguments for and against.

The point I'm making is, you're all blaming RS like crazy but where is the evidence that Leeds were better at this before him?

The success we had was built on a particular crop of talented lads that mostly came through under Uncle Smith, Tony I think. Then Brian Mac came in and militarized them into a tough as boots bunch which won loads.

Youth development takes maybe 5 years or more to show any real results in first grade, what we're reaping now was sown well before Rohan Smith's time. Again, only 6 players in the current Leeds 17 were produced through our own academy system over around the last decade.

So which coach / coaching have we ever had before which successfully got high quality youth through and performing? The evidence doesn't back the argument that RS is the root cause for me.