Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:14 am  

Homer Simpson wrote:

all is good with the world - we just have a few injuries. These tinted glasses are not working for me !

Again who has said all is good with the world? we are in a hole, but just because some of us don't think we should sack the coach immediately and bin off half the team doesn't mean with think our position at the moment is good, there can be a middle ground

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:39 am  

christopher wrote:

Again who has said all is good with the world? we are in a hole, but just because some of us don't think we should sack the coach immediately and bin off half the team doesn't mean with think our position at the moment is good, there can be a middle ground

Agreed. For me that middle ground is that we sign 4 good quality first choice players for next season (Stand Off, Prop, 2 x Second Row), and play a much more exciting brand of rugby. If BMD can facilitate this style I'm perfectly fine with him staying, however I have my doubts if he can do this.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:47 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

Agreed. For me that middle ground is that we sign 4 good quality first choice players for next season (Stand Off, Prop, 2 x Second Row), and play a much more exciting brand of rugby. If BMD can facilitate this style I'm perfectly fine with him staying, however I have my doubts if he can do this.

I think the emergence of Oledski could negate the need to get a prop for next season, but if Moon goes we definitely need a high quality SO and I think Ablett will go and JJB retire so SR is our biggest need.

as for style of play, I'll probably be in a minority but I personally wouldn't want us to go too structured, I like the play what see approach, if we can play like we did against Saints more often than not I'll be happy.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:46 am  

christopher wrote:

as for style of play, I'll probably be in a minority but I personally wouldn't want us to go too structured, I like the play what see approach, if we can play like we did against Saints more often than not I'll be happy.

I think the ‘play what’s in front of you’ claim is an excuse for poor coaching, particularly in Leeds’ case. As well as an annoying cliche from clueless O'Connor on Sky. You could certainly do that when Sinfield & McGuire were in their pomp, but, Myler aside, you don’t have the team to do it. Moon is a great centre but his crabbing style is crap for a modern HB; his team mates don’t have a clue what he is doing. Saints, when they were at their peak under Milward, could put players in any position & play great attacking rugby. Cas under Powell have been the same, playing Millington at SO. Tonight they have 11 genuine first teamers out, but I am confident they will play an exciting open brand of rugby, but with players having some idea of a structure. It’s not my position to cry sack B Mc, but is pretty much wanting in the area of attacking rugby, whoever is in front of his team.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:10 am  

christopher wrote:

I think the emergence of Oledski could negate the need to get a prop for next season, but if Moon goes we definitely need a high quality SO and I think Ablett will go and JJB retire so SR is our biggest need.

as for style of play, I'll probably be in a minority but I personally wouldn't want us to go too structured, I like the play what see approach, if we can play like we did against Saints more often than not I'll be happy.

Actually, I think a structured approach can help with "play what you see". If you are structured enough to have 3 or so options per play, you can pick the one that the defence will struggle with the most. This is pretty much what Cas do when Gale is playing when they are on fire. I don't see the two things as mutually exclusive.

I hope Oledski can continue his development, but we've been found wanting in the front row this season, probably due to the number and duration of injuries. We need to get Peteru fit and see what he can do, because if he goes well he would be like a new signing for next season (instead of this...). Like you, I'm actually much more concerned about our back row options, which is why Greenwood signing for Wigan was a big blow.

Moon can go for me, he's ineffective as a halfback, and his mind seems elsewhere, like it was when he was leaving Salford. We need to sign a partner for Myler for next year or it will be another long season as we won't be able to score enough points.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:45 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

Actually, I think a structured approach can help with "play what you see". If you are structured enough to have 3 or so options per play, you can pick the one that the defence will struggle with the most. This is pretty much what Cas do when Gale is playing when they are on fire. I don't see the two things as mutually exclusive.

I hope Oledski can continue his development, but we've been found wanting in the front row this season, probably due to the number and duration of injuries. We need to get Peteru fit and see what he can do, because if he goes well he would be like a new signing for next season (instead of this...). Like you, I'm actually much more concerned about our back row options, which is why Greenwood signing for Wigan was a big blow.

Moon can go for me, he's ineffective as a halfback, and his mind seems elsewhere, like it was when he was leaving Salford. We need to sign a partner for Myler for next year or it will be another long season as we won't be able to score enough points.

I agree with the majority of that, I'm not advocating just flinging the ball about and see what happens type of play, I think what I mean is I wouldn't want to watch an overly structured side (a bit like wigan a few years ago) where any flamboyance is cut out if you get what I mean?

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:49 am  

christopher wrote:

I agree with the majority of that, I'm not advocating just flinging the ball about and see what happens type of play, I think what I mean is I wouldn't want to watch an overly structured side (a bit like wigan a few years ago) where any flamboyance is cut out if you get what I mean?

I do, and I'd much prefer a Cas style of play than the robotic stuff Wigan played. I think Myler would be able to handle the "Gale" role, and getting the runners in place is simply a matter of discipline and practice, however I don't think we have the athleticism to pull that off at the moment, even if it were our style of play.

We do look very unfit.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:54 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

I do, and I'd much prefer a Cas style of play than the robotic stuff Wigan played. I think Myler would be able to handle the "Gale" role, and getting the runners in place is simply a matter of discipline and practice, however I don't think we have the athleticism to pull that off at the moment, even if it were our style of play.

We do look very unfit.

Not to harp on about Injuries but we could be knackered because of the extra work players are doing to fill in for the missing big men.

What is a real shame is Watkins getting Injured because him and myler were really starting to have a great understanding of each others play.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:10 am  

christopher wrote:

I think the emergence of Oledski could negate the need to get a prop for next season, but if Moon goes we definitely need a high quality SO and I think Ablett will go and JJB retire so SR is our biggest need.

be in a minority but I personally wouldn't want us to go tas for style of play, I'll probablyoo structured, I like the play what see approach, if we can play like we did against Saints more often than not I'll be happy.

The crucial detail within that though is having the calibre of players available/signed to play "heads up" RL.
the structure becomes crucial when A. injuries kick in. B. When the players available would better suit a structure and finally when PLAN A fails.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:49 am  

I've been reluctant to call for a new coach since doing so mid-2011 and perhaps at a certain dire point of 2016. At this point it is easier to assess the strengths and weaknesses of McDermott.

As last season proved, he is still capable of getting the team to perform when it counts. If he can pick his experienced players he can get us into the top 4 (obviously not this season!).

At the same time, it is arguable that our performances in weekly rounds have become highly inconsistent, even in 2017. The club's culture seems to have become fairly laissez-faire about the weekly rounds, provided that the team can get itself into a decent position when it counts. This approach all came crashing down in 2016 and 2018 when the exertions of the WCC meant that we had to deal with a run of injuries from the start of the season.

The arguments for replacing Brian Mac seem to be as follows:

1. We need to see a better attitude amongst the team and its coaching staff. This means good performances against the good sides, and results against teams we should be able beat, more often than not. This is basic professionalism.

2. Leeds desperately need to return to the kind of entertaining rugby we know the team is capable of, but only seem to dish out when we are up against opposition the players deem worthy (i.e. the recent loss to Saints). It wasn't long since southstander was full of complaints about Leeds being flat-track bullies. Leigh aside, the current team seem incapable of building up a commanding lead. It would be interesting to see the stats for the number of games Leeds have won by over 18 points during McDermott's tenure, per season. We shouldn't expect this week-in week-out, but for a supposed top side we should be doing it a lot more often than we are. Look at the likes of Saints, Cas, Wigan and Warrington...

3. We need a coach who has a plan B when we get a run of injuries. Replacement players should be able to do the basics right whilst making the odd error, and experienced players should lead by example instead of over-playing and making too many basic errors.

4. I don't think recruitment has been as terrible as some have made out. At the same time, the retention of Walters, and the sentiment shown to the likes of so many players in our back-row has gone too far IMO. Ablett, Delaney and JJB have all been fantastic servants to the club but I don't think their net contribution to the team supports keeping them any longer. Time to move on.