Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:19 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Didnt we concede 38 against Sts with Falloon in the side? Didnt we concede 28 to London with Segeyaro? Wasnt it JJB, a better defender than any of them, who started at 9 against Wigan and we conceded 40?

Who was hooker when we only concede 12 to warrington? Its almost like anyone could pick a result out and decide it representative of something, and anyone could invent an alternate reality where something different happened and pretend it backed them up.

Yes we did concede 38 vs Saints and if I recall Falloon couldn't make it through the game with a back injury. You could we were tossing it off vs London given the opposition. As for the 12 vs Warrington, exactly one of the points being made, it's ok doing it week 1 when everyone is fresh,, once the weeks and games start adding up then it's a different story to keep doing weekly.

As for the one about JJB being a good defender, this is the problem with the whole "just get someone else to make those 30 tackles". You can't just throw any old body into that role and say do his tackles. Hookers might defend in the same part of the pitch as props but their defence is different. Your props give you your size and strength and collosion in defence, your hooker your pace, mobility, line speed, energy. How many props would make the tackle Houghton made to win the CC? How many hookers would make the kind of hit Leuluai put on Higham to dislodge the ball in the 2012 GF?

If you have 4 big forwards in the middle you'll get done for pace around the ruck, if you had 4 hookers in the middle you'd get done for size and strength. You need that more mobile quicker defender in that part of the pitch, you can't just have all slower big lumps.

A hooker and prop offer you different things in that middle defence, you need both like you try and say with balancing things out. You need size and strength, but you need mobility and speed too, so we can't just lump JJB or Delaney there and say "here do the hooker's tackles for me"

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:26 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

No we are specifically, and had you been able to read properly you would be well aware) not saying that. Lilley is neither a good enough defender nor in offence right now.

THough i have to question how having Sinfield Mcguire and Burrow sharing those share those duties didnt work because Sinfield had McGuire and Burrow share those duties with him.

Just as a little stat that might be relevant, Kevin Sinfield was our top tackler every year of the threepeat. He has been a top 5 tackler in 10 of his last 12 seasons. The other two he was 6th and 8th. It did work ok.
I mean it is a skill that Beau Falloon did for 7 years in the NRL.

Yeas Sinfield was top tackler during the three peat but who was dummy half? Diskin, so you had McGuire, Burrow and Sinfield to share duties off of a Diskin PTB. Burrow at dummy half you'd just have McGuire and Sinfield to share duties of a Burrow PTB, so you have one less guy if Burrow is stuck at the PTB so an increased workload for the two remaining halves, one of whom you still expect to do 40 tackles.

[quote='SmokeyTA"]And didnt you tell me we went with Adam Cuthbertson as a hooker in the challenge cup final?[/quote]

We named him at hooker, we all know he didn't jump into dummy half during the game though.

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:31 pm  

SegEyaro has made a huge difference to us and his play on attack has been key in the home wins v HKR and Salford. I was sat in Carnegie stand and saw him shout "wide" to moon when we were clearing out lines in first half. He threw a fine long pass, moon made one of his mazy run breaks to halfway and we scored a minute or so later. He scored the breakaway try and put a great ball to cuthbo at the end. He has thrown excellent line balls to Watkins in recent weeks on the opposition goal lines leading to tries. Now if we could get a half with a kicking game of the same quality and perhaps a young mobile forward things would look a lot better.

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:38 pm  

ThePrinter wrote: Yes we did concede 38 vs Saints and if I recall Falloon couldn't make it through the game with a back injury. You could we were tossing it off vs London given the opposition. As for the 12 vs Warrington, exactly one of the points being made, it's ok doing it week 1 when everyone is fresh,, once the weeks and games start adding up then it's a different story to keep doing weekly. As for the one about JJB being a good defender, this is the problem with the whole "just get someone else to make those 30 tackles". You can't just throw any old body into that role and say do his tackles. Hookers might defend in the same part of the pitch as props but their defence is different. Your props give you your size and strength and collosion in defence, your hooker your pace, mobility, line speed, energy. How many props would make the tackle Houghton made to win the CC? How many hookers would make the kind of hit Leuluai put on Higham to dislodge the ball in the 2012 GF? I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. I certainly can't imagine Terry Newton could put in a big hit like Kylie Lueluai, Nor a player like Ian Kirke chasing back and making a tackle. If you told me that a bit lump like Gordon Tallis were to catch and tackle a speedster like Brett Hodgson i would be shocked, shocked i tell you one thing we can be certain of is james graham can't do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDvV9i-bIg If you have 4 big forwards in the middle you'll get done for pace around the ruck, if you had 4 hookers in the middle you'd get done for size and strength. You need that more mobile quicker defender in that part of the pitch, you can't just have all slower big lumps. Why are we now having these slower lumps? Is there a reason why think only slower players can make additional tackles? A hooker and prop offer you different things in that middle defence, you need both like you try and say with balancing things out. You need size and strength, but you need mobility and speed too, so we can't just lump JJB or Delaney there and say "here do the hooker's tackles for me" 1 hooker and another hooker offer you different things. JJB and Delany offer you differnt things. Benny Elias wasnt Keiron Cunningham nor was he Terry Newton, nor was he Eloi Pelissier, Cam Smith doesnt play how james Roby plays. All are hookers. All play the game differently. Similarly Gareth Ellis and Ali Lauitiiti played the same postion, they are vastly different players. James Graham and Keith Galloway play the same position they are even both ginger. They do different things though.

ThePrinter wrote: Yes we did concede 38 vs Saints and if I recall Falloon couldn't make it through the game with a back injury. You could we were tossing it off vs London given the opposition. As for the 12 vs Warrington, exactly one of the points being made, it's ok doing it week 1 when everyone is fresh,, once the weeks and games start adding up then it's a different story to keep doing weekly. As for the one about JJB being a good defender, this is the problem with the whole "just get someone else to make those 30 tackles". You can't just throw any old body into that role and say do his tackles. Hookers might defend in the same part of the pitch as props but their defence is different. Your props give you your size and strength and collosion in defence, your hooker your pace, mobility, line speed, energy. How many props would make the tackle Houghton made to win the CC? How many hookers would make the kind of hit Leuluai put on Higham to dislodge the ball in the 2012 GF? I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. I certainly can't imagine Terry Newton could put in a big hit like Kylie Lueluai, Nor a player like Ian Kirke chasing back and making a tackle. If you told me that a bit lump like Gordon Tallis were to catch and tackle a speedster like Brett Hodgson i would be shocked, shocked i tell you one thing we can be certain of is james graham can't do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDvV9i-bIg If you have 4 big forwards in the middle you'll get done for pace around the ruck, if you had 4 hookers in the middle you'd get done for size and strength. You need that more mobile quicker defender in that part of the pitch, you can't just have all slower big lumps. Why are we now having these slower lumps? Is there a reason why think only slower players can make additional tackles? A hooker and prop offer you different things in that middle defence, you need both like you try and say with balancing things out. You need size and strength, but you need mobility and speed too, so we can't just lump JJB or Delaney there and say "here do the hooker's tackles for me" 1 hooker and another hooker offer you different things. JJB and Delany offer you differnt things. Benny Elias wasnt Keiron Cunningham nor was he Terry Newton, nor was he Eloi Pelissier, Cam Smith doesnt play how james Roby plays. All are hookers. All play the game differently. Similarly Gareth Ellis and Ali Lauitiiti played the same postion, they are vastly different players. James Graham and Keith Galloway play the same position they are even both ginger. They do different things though.

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:43 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Yeas Sinfield was top tackler during the three peat but who was dummy half? Diskin, so you had McGuire, Burrow and Sinfield to share duties off of a Diskin PTB. Burrow at dummy half you'd just have McGuire and Sinfield to share duties of a Burrow PTB, so you have one less guy if Burrow is stuck at the PTB so an increased workload for the two remaining halves, one of whom you still expect to do 40 tackles.

Why are only those players allowed to go to dummy half?

We named him at hooker, we all know he didn't jump into dummy half during the game though.

Surely not? Its surely crazy talk that the traditional duties of a hooker were shared between other members of the team? we must have been thrashed in that game?

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:17 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote: I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. . https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfxFjF1a8E Yep, Cunningham was a fantastically mobile 9 with real gas.

SmokeyTA wrote: I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. . https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfxFjF1a8E Yep, Cunningham was a fantastically mobile 9 with real gas.

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:23 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote: I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. I certainly can't imagine Terry Newton could put in a big hit like Kylie Lueluai, Nor a player like Ian Kirke chasing back and making a tackle. If you told me that a bit lump like Gordon Tallis were to catch and tackle a speedster like Brett Hodgson i would be shocked, shocked i tell you one thing we can be certain of is james graham can't do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDvV9i-bIg Why are we now having these slower lumps? Is there a reason why think only slower players can make additional tackles? 1 hooker and another hooker offer you different things. JJB and Delany offer you differnt things. Benny Elias wasnt Keiron Cunningham nor was he Terry Newton, nor was he Eloi Pelissier, Cam Smith doesnt play how james Roby plays. All are hookers. All play the game differently. Similarly Gareth Ellis and Ali Lauitiiti played the same postion, they are vastly different players. James Graham and Keith Galloway play the same position they are even both ginger. They do different things though. Lautiiti and Ellis played 2nd row differently but they still played it in both attack and defence. Name one other player that plays attack in one position and defends in another position ( from the usual standard positions in defence) especially at hooker.

SmokeyTA wrote: I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. I certainly can't imagine Terry Newton could put in a big hit like Kylie Lueluai, Nor a player like Ian Kirke chasing back and making a tackle. If you told me that a bit lump like Gordon Tallis were to catch and tackle a speedster like Brett Hodgson i would be shocked, shocked i tell you one thing we can be certain of is james graham can't do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDvV9i-bIg Why are we now having these slower lumps? Is there a reason why think only slower players can make additional tackles? 1 hooker and another hooker offer you different things. JJB and Delany offer you differnt things. Benny Elias wasnt Keiron Cunningham nor was he Terry Newton, nor was he Eloi Pelissier, Cam Smith doesnt play how james Roby plays. All are hookers. All play the game differently. Similarly Gareth Ellis and Ali Lauitiiti played the same postion, they are vastly different players. James Graham and Keith Galloway play the same position they are even both ginger. They do different things though. Lautiiti and Ellis played 2nd row differently but they still played it in both attack and defence. Name one other player that plays attack in one position and defends in another position ( from the usual standard positions in defence) especially at hooker.

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:22 pm  

DHM wrote: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfxFjF1a8E Yep, Cunningham was a fantastically mobile 9 with real gas. No, you are wrong, big players can't cover tackle, and little players can't smash players off the field https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTBtXLe5X7A

DHM wrote: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfxFjF1a8E Yep, Cunningham was a fantastically mobile 9 with real gas. No, you are wrong, big players can't cover tackle, and little players can't smash players off the field https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTBtXLe5X7A

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:25 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Lautiiti and Ellis played 2nd row differently but they still played it in both attack and defence.

Did they? because Ali Lauitiiti made a shed load fewer tackles than Gareth Ellis did. So who has making those tackles?

Name one other player that plays attack in one position and defends in another position ( from the usual standard positions in defence) especially at hooker.

There are no set positions for defence. This isnt the NFL.

Re: Segayaro : Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:54 pm  

THREAD DRIFT, THREAD DRIFT.

It's to be hoped you're back challenging for honors next year, if this is the result.

Is he staying or not?