: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:54 am  

Matt23 wrote:

Rugby League doesn't do segregation remember? If indeed there were Donny trouble causers in the middle of that lot, they want their heads testing. If there were racist comments made, or any form of trouble coming from the Donny side of things, I'm not sure it warrants a riot to be honest, especially not the attacking of stewards and police.

It does do security and H&S though, remember ?

Apart from at Doncaster aparently, where they request that the tie be switched to their ground for security and H&S reasons, and then don't provide any.

The fact that both teams are still in the draw suggests that the RFL are looking at the lack of any such provisions very seriously - whoever caused the trouble for whatever reason isn't even relevant anymore, the lack of any sort of stewarding and no police presence until someone thought to call them on their mobile will take some squirming out of by the home team, they could be in serious trouble.

On the other hand there is a big carpet at the RFL where lots of stuff gets swept under...

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:05 am  

Jemmo wrote: And the game the day after...who called who what there? Never happened, apparently. If it is as Smithson says it is, I would hope that League Publications Ltd would offer the club an apology in next week's 'League Express'. I've e-mailed Martyn Sadler to ask that he does so.

Jemmo wrote: And the game the day after...who called who what there? Never happened, apparently. If it is as Smithson says it is, I would hope that League Publications Ltd would offer the club an apology in next week's 'League Express'. I've e-mailed Martyn Sadler to ask that he does so.

[Jemmo]

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:45 pm  

Charmless Nerk wrote: Never happened, apparently. If it is as Smithson says it is, I would hope that League Publications Ltd would offer the club an apology in next week's 'League Express'. I've e-mailed Martyn Sadler to ask that he does so. In which case I apologise...and lesson learned not believe everything I read

Charmless Nerk wrote: Never happened, apparently. If it is as Smithson says it is, I would hope that League Publications Ltd would offer the club an apology in next week's 'League Express'. I've e-mailed Martyn Sadler to ask that he does so. In which case I apologise...and lesson learned not believe everything I read

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:45 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

It does do security and H&S though, remember ?

Apart from at Doncaster aparently, where they request that the tie be switched to their ground for security and H&S reasons, and then don't provide any.

The fact that both teams are still in the draw suggests that the RFL are looking at the lack of any such provisions very seriously - whoever caused the trouble for whatever reason isn't even relevant anymore, the lack of any sort of stewarding and no police presence until someone thought to call them on their mobile will take some squirming out of by the home team, they could be in serious trouble.

On the other hand there is a big carpet at the RFL where lots of stuff gets swept under...

I agree with you about the lack of security, they must have had prior warning about Queens reputation, and if there was a problem with Moorends they should have known about that too. For what it's worth I'm actually in favour of some sort of segregation at most games, as it hopefully prevents incidents like this.
However you seem to be suggesting that the trouble was completely down to the lack of Doncaster security and possible aggro from some people associated with Doncaster. I've spoken to a few people at the game who have told me the Queens lot were being highly intimidating to all around them throughout the whole game, throwing things at the touch judge. Surely they had enough of a part in the brawl to get kicked out of the competition, and Doncaster may follow.

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:11 pm  

If and only if both teams are thrown out...

Who goes in to the next round or do gateshead then get a bye?

Should it be replayed it must be behind closed doors surely?

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:22 pm  

Matt23 wrote:

Surely they had enough of a part in the brawl to get kicked out of the competition, and Doncaster may follow.

To what extent do you charge an amateur team with being responsible for the conduct of their fans at an away fixture in a professionally run stadium? We've all seen fights which could have developed into more than minor scuffles were it not for a police/security presence at SL grounds, yet no-one screams for clubs kicking out of SL as a result.

I'd say Donny are in more danger for failing to provide adequate policing or stewarding as the "home" team.

: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:20 pm  

Matt23 wrote:

However you seem to be suggesting that the trouble was completely down to the lack of Doncaster security and possible aggro from some people associated with Doncaster. I've spoken to a few people at the game who have told me the Queens lot were being highly intimidating to all around them throughout the whole game, throwing things at the touch judge. Surely they had enough of a part in the brawl to get kicked out of the competition, and Doncaster may follow.

Ultimately its their responsibility, I'm not really interested in who called who or did what to who, ultimately Doncaster are responsible for the paying members of the public who attend the game, like for instance the grandparents of one of the players who I know who were caught right in the middle of the affray.

They know that and they have a lot of embarrassing questions to answer, the comment of their chief exec that I have read that stated that he was happy with their handling of the situation shows that he is way out of touch with what is expected of even a semi-pro club.

: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:17 am  

Andy Gilder wrote:

To what extent do you charge an amateur team with being responsible for the conduct of their fans at an away fixture in a professionally run stadium? We've all seen fights which could have developed into more than minor scuffles were it not for a police/security presence at SL grounds, yet no-one screams for clubs kicking out of SL as a result.

I'd say Donny are in more danger for failing to provide adequate policing or stewarding as the "home" team.

So was it the McCalpine stadium's management teams fault that the Hull fans got on the pitch in 2000? Surely if they'd provided adequate policing in the first place the whole thing would never have happened. No doubt Donny could be in trouble (especially if it's true that it was fans that phoned the Police, and not a member of staff at the stadium), but I don't think that they (the club) were the cause of the trouble, and that's what should be punished IMO.

: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:00 pm  

Matt23 wrote:

So was it the McCalpine stadium's management teams fault that the Hull fans got on the pitch in 2000? Surely if they'd provided adequate policing in the first place the whole thing would never have happened. No doubt Donny could be in trouble (especially if it's true that it was fans that phoned the Police, and not a member of staff at the stadium), but I don't think that they (the club) were the cause of the trouble, and that's what should be punished IMO.

Was it Hull FC as a club's fault that individuals claiming to be their fans got on the pitch?

Is it Queens ARLFC's fault that some individuals associated with them were involved in an altercation that was definitely not one sided?

What could either club have realistically done which they didn't to prevent it happening in the first place?

: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:11 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

I'd say Donny are in more danger for failing to provide adequate policing or stewarding as the "home" team.

Maybe, although this would set a dangerous precedent if it meant that away fans could ensure their team's progress by orchestrating a ruck.