: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:20 pm  

loinertillidie wrote:

G1. I think we are supposed to work this out ourselves. I think the author is making some kind of subliminal point that can only be worked out via the application of varying degrees of statistical nous.

Or there is a demonstration of fundamental feckwittism. One of the two.

He's convinced me. The St Helen's players are clearly all superior to ours. Just like the Wigan fans were telling us about the superiority of their players before last friday.

It amazes me the shower of poop running around in Blue and Amber keep winning these championships.

Either that or, as you say, Ashmeister has demonstrated fundamental fekkwittism, yet again.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:24 pm  

G1 wrote:

He's convinced me. The St Helen's players are clearly all superior to ours. Just like the Wigan fans were telling us about the superiority of their players before last friday.

It amazes me the shower of poop running around in Blue and Amber keep winning these championships.

Either that or, as you say, Ashmeister has demonstrated fundamental fekkwittism, yet again.

To be fair i was comparing him to Saints players because they're players i watch. Bryn Hargreaves is a plodder, i'm not making him out to be any good. The fact is thou that this plodder is running along line with the same stats as Ryan Bailey.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:49 pm  

Ashmeister wrote:

To be fair i was comparing him to Saints players because they're players i watch. Bryn Hargreaves is a plodder, i'm not making him out to be any good. The fact is thou that this plodder is running along line with the same stats as Ryan Bailey.

All you've shown is that bailey made just under half the meter's graham made with 51 less carries,he made more clean breaks than graham,less errors and 31 less tackles.
Bailey conceded more penalties than graham but none of them cost us the match.
So going by that his stats aren't as bad as you've tried to make out especially the meter's per carry.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:55 pm  

rhinoms wrote:

All you've shown is that bailey made just under half the meter's graham made with 51 less carries,he made more clean breaks than graham,less errors and 31 less tackles.
Bailey conceded more penalties than graham but none of them cost us the match.
So going by that his stats aren't as bad as you've tried to make out especially the meter's per carry.

Someone should also point out that TVOC has conclusively proved Opta stats as totally unreliable.

Therefore we're not accepting them as evidence around here of anything any more.

We'll have to base our assessment of Bailey vs the Saints props on a more subjective basis. Like how they perform against each other in Grand Finals and the like.

I'd point this out directly but I am ignoring the fekkwitt troll.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:58 pm  

G1 wrote:

Someone should also point out that TVOC has conclusively proved Opta stats as totally unreliable.

Therefore we're not accepting them as evidence around here of anything any more.

We'll have to base our assessment of Bailey vs the Saints props on a more subjective basis. Like how they perform against each other in Grand Finals and the like.

I'd point this out directly but I am ignoring the fekkwitt troll.

God call on the stats,i'm surprised he didn't realise that bailey's stats as he posted them stood up well to graham's.

: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:32 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

My only issue with Ryan Bailey is that he isn't as tough as his dad. He is, however, much better than most people give him credit for.

If only you knew.

: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:23 am  

Les75Jean wrote:

If only you knew.

Which part?

The bit about him being as tough as his dad?

: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:13 am  

rhinoms wrote:

All you've shown is that bailey made just under half the meter's graham made with 51 less carries,he made more clean breaks than graham,less errors and 31 less tackles.
Bailey conceded more penalties than graham but none of them cost us the match.
So going by that his stats aren't as bad as you've tried to make out especially the meter's per carry.

As Gareth said, not only are the stats often poop, but more importanly Graham is a prop who is on for long periods.

Bailey is on for spells, and in two of those games he played spells in the second row, not prop. Therefore its not like for like anyway.

: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:18 am  

G1 wrote:

Someone should also point out that TVOC has conclusively proved Opta stats as totally unreliable.

Therefore we're not accepting them as evidence around here of anything any more.

We'll have to base our assessment of Bailey vs the Saints props on a more subjective basis. Like how they perform against each other in Grand Finals and the like.

I'd point this out directly but I am ignoring the fekkwitt troll.

Hear, hear.

: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:01 am  

DISA wrote:

As Gareth said, not only are the stats often poop, but more importanly Graham is a prop who is on for long periods.

Bailey is on for spells, and in two of those games he played spells in the second row, not prop. Therefore its not like for like anyway.

Agreed. People seem to think that Opta stats are the bee all and end all of performance appraisal. Now TVOC has proved them inaccurate, and I have always said that when comparing forwards time spent on the pitch isn't measured, or at least made available for free. If baileys smaller meters and number of tackles are made in half the pitch time then it makes a big difference.

Also, Bailey is probably our 3rd best prop, behind Peacock and leuluai. Comparing him to Graham is stupid. The comparison with Hargreaves is a better one IMO.