Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:40 am  

Stevosfalseteeth wrote:

Gotcha, in negotiations do you go straight in with your best offer? Let's be honest, the lad is 17. He's done nothing in his career. Yes, he is promising but he can't be throwing his weight around (via his agent/management company.) All these rumours about wanting specialist coaching? You're 17!! All you need is game time at that age. Hetherington will negotiate but he isn't daft enough to offer a kid (who has done nothing at all) silly money. He wouldn't do it with Calderwood, Lee Smith etc, he won't start now.

Who is offering and who is demanding "silly money"? Think about that one and give an answer and there might be an argument.

I think the issue here, as usual, is there is an obsession with arguing for arguing sake, rather than looking factually and with a bit of open mind.

This isn't a first professional contract, had it been the arguments are very valid. On signing his first professional contract, he was offered s three year deal at X, or a two year deal at Y at which he could prove himself. He backed himself with the two year deal, as he was confident in his ability. That two years are up. The original offer from Leeds was hardly even above the three year deal he could have signed originally. Other clubs heard about it and have seemed to make own offers, this before his MOM against Saints. That is "clubs" not club, which of course would suggest a market rate. If it is good enough for various clubs then which club is offering the "silly" money if Lerds so far behind? And if it is silky then why are they coming back now with more? That original two year deal he signed was under the advice of Rob Burrow, to back himself, as Burrow thought he had it all to be a star.

What certain posters are trying to form an argument on, seems to be that all youngsters should be paid the same regardless of ability. That would be silly. But regardless of that, had it been a first professional contract, that you can at least understand the argument. But first team players are all paid at different rates, and that is what this is. I mean posters talk of others asking for same, that is how sport wages work. Jack is a far superior player to the likes of Handley or Walters, yet the market rate is not at even their level of salary.

To keep him now, will cost more than it would have done had they acted right at the start. I don't think it would cost as much as one clubs offering, but it will be more than double Leeds initial offer, probably more with added reputation now. Again Jack backed himself and as a result he took that gamble, so probably only right he will be the gainer now. It is also worth noting, that Alex Sutcliffe who hasn't made his debut yet, and also a very good player, signed his new deal on quite a bit more than the initial offer made to Jack.

On another note you mention demands of specialist coaching, this is made up isn't it? The actual factual correct is that two of the clubs after him have that as standard in their coaching and development. Leeds don't. It is a massive benefit to any player, young or even old. Never a demand, but something all clubs, especially the big ones should accomdate any player.

This post was not specific to you by the way. I am trying to answer all questions in one post.

But if the argument now is, when they initially sat down they didn't know he would prove himself like he has, what does that say about the coaching set up at the club? It is only three months after, and he hasn't just become such a player overnight. They though highly enough of him as a fourteen year old to back him when out injured for a long time with fractured skull, as they thought then he would be a future star.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:15 am  

So someone (Leigh) have offered him 40k and specialist coaching. He obviously wants Leeds to match that, or he'd have already signed. No matter what you say, 40k for a 17 year old is ridiculous. Like I said, Hetherington won't be held to ransom. There is a clear wage structure in place at Leeds, and if Walker wants to rebel against that, he can leave for me.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:28 am  

How GH operates with young players making their first few steps into the first team has been perfectly fine for Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire, JJB, Diskin, Bailey, Chev Walker, Smith, Mathers, Ablett, Hall, Watkins, BJB, Singleton, Ward, Sutcliffe, Lilley, Golding.

Maybe Walker should ask some of them if passing up on an little bit extra money early doors is something they regret.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:58 am  

Stevosfalseteeth wrote:

So someone (Leigh) have offered him 40k and specialist coaching. He obviously wants Leeds to match that, or he'd have already signed. No matter what you say, 40k for a 17 year old is ridiculous. Like I said, Hetherington won't be held to ransom. There is a clear wage structure in place at Leeds, and if Walker wants to rebel against that, he can leave for me.

You keep mentioning specialist coaching, what exactly do you think that means?

Actually Leigh have offered nothing of the sort, and as far as I was aware he wasn't particularly keen on the Leigh deal. They have offered £40k and the starting spot in the first team, but only a one year deal.

Others are less than that, but two clubs have a coaching set up splitting individuals to skills. Not specialist, just coaching skills to develop players further, something IMO all clubs should do. I mean they do it in junior rugby.

And to answer Printers continual reference to youngsters of 15 years ago. Honestly mate, and I don't mean this in anyway negative, but if you had the slightest idea in what Leeds used to do and how they set up now, you wouldn't bring it up. You are so wrong on the subject. We wouldn't have had that generation now, but then again it didn't happen by chance either.

Back to £40k, do I think it ridiculous, yeah I would. But market rates are determined by the market, not one club, and that means the highest and the lowest. In my honest opinion, I think had leeds offered the deal they should have done at the start, he would have probably signed up for less than the other clubs who are more realistic offering. But since then, and what shown since, I bet we have players well over £40k who are offering less for the money than he would, regardless of age.

There is no demands though,so not sure where that keeps getting made up from. His management company simply heard Leeds offer, which was derisory, and immediately turned it down, and refused to sit down again until nearer the end of the contract. In that time, and wrongly IMO, they have actively discussed him with other clubs, clubs who can not officially make an offer until August I think it is, but have regardless put the offer in their heads. As far as I know Jack wants to sit back down with Leeds, but he is restricted by his Management company.

At the end of the day, this Management company, regardless of you, I, or anyone liking them, will manage about 75%-80% of the players out there in next couple of years, and most probably as near as damn it 100% of the big potential stars, as that is what they aim for. Burning bridges is not going to help this club in anyway, and in all fairness to Hetherington he realised this and acted on it last year, so he is smart enough to know what he is doing.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:40 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

And to answer Printers continual reference to youngsters of 15 years ago. Honestly mate, and I don't mean this in anyway negative, but if you had the slightest idea in what Leeds used to do and how they set up now, you wouldn't bring it up. You are so wrong on the subject. We wouldn't have had that generation now, but then again it didn't happen by chance either.

I know how they've gone about business in the past and now and I'm not saying it stayed exactly the same.

The point is the CLEAR evidence that the guy knows what he's doing despite the keyboard CEO's telling us how incorrectly he's doing things.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:17 pm  

As in every avenue of business, it's offer and counter offer. If he wants better money then he's off. Leeds player history since The Sleeves been here is there for all to see in the trophies. Good young player........could be a Leeds legend.....could be a dud. Tow the line like the Golden Generation did and reap the rewards and accolades in the future.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:04 pm  

Simple fact is we have a potential superstar who deserves a decent wage if that means shedding 1 or 2 1st teamers early or squad players then why not?
Id rather we put 40k into Walker than kept players like Delaney etc longer than A.Needed & B.Actually were still playing more than 15 games a year.
Wrt GH he's shown jn the past with Senior Barrie Mc Mckenna Bai etc etc he has a ruthless streak with 30+'s moving them on imo its time he reverted to that approach.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:24 pm  

Potential is the key word. In a salary capped sport we don't have the option of chucking brass at potential. Trust the Coach and the CEO to make the correct decisions for the future of the club. If you're not convinced by their decisions, then construct a strongly worded email to those in charge........good luck with that.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:26 pm  

rhino65 wrote:

As in every avenue of business, it's offer and counter offer. If he wants better money then he's off. Leeds player history since The Sleeves been here is there for all to see in the trophies. Good young player........could be a Leeds legend.....could be a dud. Tow the line like the Golden Generation did and reap the rewards and accolades in the future.

No it's not that at all. They are dealing with a management company that simply will not deal with the Leeds coaching set up, and hence why Hetherington changed things end of last year and is dealing personally with this. Yet still he called their bluff, and that management company have too much influence to be pushed. They simply said no, and left. No demands made, just left and said they would speak again nearer his contract ending. All that's happened since is the players reputation has increased, and thus his market value has increased.

That golden generation you talk about were on far far far more money on their second professional contracts than what we are talking about here, so explain what comparison you are trying to make? You just highlight the argument, that if you have a potential star, then keep him, develop him, and pay him.

I would bet any money right now that If Hetherington could turn back time to that contract offer, he would change it significantly now. Because to change the situation now is going to cost him more than it would have done. But still, it still won't be the sort of figures we were paying in 2003/2004/2005. Yet some fans seem to want to rewrite history, instead of repeating what we did so well.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour Thread V2 : Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:45 am  

rhino65 wrote:

Potential is the key word. In a salary capped sport we don't have the option of chucking brass at potential. Trust the Coach and the CEO to make the correct decisions for the future of the club. If you're not convinced by their decisions, then construct a strongly worded email to those in charge........good luck with that.

The same bràss we chucked at Sinfield Mcguire Burrow Chev Walker Mathers etc etc because they all started with "potential".
Wrt the Coach making the best decisions for the Club ,the Club & it's future are much bigger than him as for constructing a strongly worded E-mail grow up.