Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 9:42 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

We’re 8th.

Bar Leigh, a semi-competent team, the only teams below us are all train wrecks.

A quality coach can do something with this team. Things fall into place very quickly when you have a quality coach, we just don’t appoint them anymore. It doesn’t have to be an xx year transition. People are obsessed with that for some reason. In 96 we nearly got relegated, but in 98 we competed at the top and made the grand final. We just made good recruitment decisions and appointed a top quality coach.

Watson and Rowley have all been gettable in the last 5 years and would all be doing better with this squad than the current “coach”.

We are just rotting in mediocrity right now. People talking about having seen worse teams like it’s some badge of honour. Just because the club has been a mess in yesteryear doesn’t mean standards should be dropped.

Where is the ruthless drive for a success? Remember Hetherington at the turn of the century? Setting targets for success and dishing out the medicine when it wasn’t achieved.

The club is dead on the field.

Nail on head

Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:41 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

We’re 8th.

Bar Leigh, a semi-competent team, the only teams below us are all train wrecks.

A quality coach can do something with this team. Things fall into place very quickly when you have a quality coach, we just don’t appoint them anymore. It doesn’t have to be an xx year transition. People are obsessed with that for some reason. In 96 we nearly got relegated, but in 98 we competed at the top and made the grand final. We just made good recruitment decisions and appointed a top quality coach.

Watson and Rowley have all been gettable in the last 5 years and would all be doing better with this squad than the current “coach”.

We are just rotting in mediocrity right now. People talking about having seen worse teams like it’s some badge of honour. Just because the club has been a mess in yesteryear doesn’t mean standards should be dropped.

Where is the ruthless drive for a success? Remember Hetherington at the turn of the century? Setting targets for success and dishing out the medicine when it wasn’t achieved.

The club is dead on the field.

This

Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:47 am  

There’s only one way that GH will
actually do something about this, if the supporters make it absolutely clear that the coaching of the team is not good enough. This is already started, the North Stand under the coaching booth were very vocal on Friday, but it’s only when it’s coming from all quarters that GH can’t ignore it.

We’re going nowhere under this bloke he needs to be replaced with a proper coach.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:53 am  

Last year, I backed that smith was doing a really tough job, because he had been tasked with getting rid of the deadwood in the squad or toxic characters, and so the season was a right off.

Now Sezer is doing a half decent job back in the NRL, and we’ve spent £150k transfer fee basically bringing in a hooker who was no better than Leeming, who is now at the side favourites to win the league (I’m not saying Leeming is all that btw).

I do like some of the stuff Smith has done around the club, and he clearly thinks differently about the game and has some unique perspectives.

Ultimately, his downfall will be his rigid beliefs in the way only he thinks the game should be played, and his unique insight on players he signed. McDonell aside are bang average. JJB’s comments on sky were illuminating and Blake Austin’s on social media too.

Time to move on with loads of the season left to improve with a good squad.

Throw some money at Justin Holbrook or another proved coach who know the comp! Come on GH!

Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:57 am  

So you want the same man who appointed the previous 4 coaches who didn't work out, to appoint another one? Genius.

I'm not saying RS is the man for the job at Leeds right now, I have been scratching my head at times at some of his in-game decisions. I think the whole "passive defence" bandwagon has been overblown - that's not why we lost against Wire or against Hudds in my opinion (although we are losing the ruck too often in D and attack).

Was interesting watching the two teams warm up on Friday. We do some stuff running through pads and passing on the other side. Hudds were all practising passing from the floor, skill work, and then rucks. They practiced putting the attacker on their back, and then twisting out and finding the floor when in possession.

Now I'm sure all sides practice similar drills, but we definitely lost the ruck too much and I think we do generally. This is an area where big Mik could improve for example, he constantly gets turtled and then his PTB is painfully slow.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:04 pm  

That comment wasn't particularly aimed at you Exiled, your post popped up before I'd posted mine.

Just on average players though, we have brought some decent players in under Smith in truth. No enough, and not always in the right positions, but some decent ones. McDonnell had a really good game first half against Hudds and was cleaning everything up, then when he switched to centre got done for footwork and pace a couple of times by a decent opposition centre. Thought Roberts had a really solid game too (he's only 20!!) until bad dropped ball right at the end there.

Dunno like I keep saying, we look 2-3 star signings short of a reliably competitive side still, but fixing up the mess from last year was likely always going to take a couple of years. IF (and it is a big if), we can get those 2-3 signings in who are good enough and in key areas, and IF some of our younger / project players can show progression over the next 8 months, I still think we'll be there or thereabouts next season.

I've not watched the Hudds game back yet but we did lose our first choice right hand side after about 20 mins in practice, with no backs on the bench. There was some mitigation for the loss; but I still think certain players need to improve.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:06 pm  

Flex - you're spot on. Right now there are three teams better than us, which we know because they've beaten us at home. Wigan almost certainly are some way ahead as they are possibly the best team in the comp. So on form we're fifth at best. We look like losing games against any team who is in form, and the way we play risks playing poorer teams into form. Until reality bit about two thirds of the way through last season it was all near misses and coulda shoulda won, until it was too late.

That's why I'm with exiled - I thought Smith was given an unfair ride last year because of the really awful mess he was trying to clean up. Sadly though we look no better, and taking into account the money spent we are playing much worse.

Its time to stop talking about rebuilding. We're not even dreaming Wire style of this being 'our year', but some unknown future year. I'm all for having a plan and sticking to it, but not when it seems to be going so shambolically on the field where it counts. At some stage you have to admit something's not working and make a change.

GH isn't going anywhere, so yes kaeru, its up to him to make the change. Also you say that the passive defence is overblown then go into detail about why we're losing collisions and position. Its all basic stuff, and you cannot win the majority of games when you're badly losing the territory battle, regardless of the cause. If the coach isn't responsible for that who is?

Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:20 pm  

Smith was given. An 'unfair ride' last season despite the challenges he either created or was dealt, because despite any mitigation it was painfully obvious that he wasn't and isn't the right coach to take us forward.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:10 pm  

FlexWheeler wrote:

We are just rotting in mediocrity right now. People talking about having seen worse teams like it’s some badge of honour. Just because the club has been a mess in yesteryear doesn’t mean standards should be dropped.

If this is a response to my post as the one before this one, I mentioned those poorer sides because another poster claimed this was the worst Leeds side since 1978. It is not.

Like it or not, the competition is totally different to 97-98. Back then all it took was a very astute coaching appointment, a handful of signings and GH buying out half of Keighley and we waltzed straight back into the top 2. And let's not forget that we could only keep Murray for two years, after which he left us in a mess and took our best forward to the NRL.

The only club that have done anything approaching this recently is Leigh, and look where they are now - only 'semi competent' according to your analysis.

We don't know yet how good or bad this side is. We're in 8th now, but the season isn't decided after 8 rounds. Most of the teams above us have played and beaten Hull and London. Knowing Leeds we will lose one or both of these games because confidence is bottoming out again, but they could equally be opportunities to rebuild a bit of belief in the team and go on a winning run.

Given the changes made to the team, it was always going to take time to gel. Things were looking promising until we had a spell of tough games against Saints, at which point the belief of some players seemed to evaporate. Aspects of recent performances aren't acceptable for a big club like Leeds, but I'm wary of a knee-jerk decision that will undo green shoots that GH seems to think are visible behind the scenes at the club.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:21 am  

I understand the knee-jerk perception, and I'd love us not to have to rip up part of the plan and start again. But the fact is we're 8th in the comp after a huge outlay on players - in fact very similar to 97. We've seen very little sign of that investment giving us a big jump in results, as we saw immediately in 97. I don't think anyone expected us to win the comp this year, but right now the signs just are not good.

It is of course possible that we'll turn things around, but after a 2 week break from a disappointing series of results I think most of us wanted to see more than another game where we play well for half a match and then a shambles in the other. There's a little light now in facing teams in consecutive weeks we should be able to beat, and maybe that will start to build confidence? But last year we got the odd win that seemed to suggest better days, only to fall in a heap the following week. My issue is that we again seem so poor at the fundamentals of low errors, winning collisions and winning territory. If we keep doing that I don't see anything approaching a turnaround happening.