Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:58 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

He has a great rugby brain in defence TBF. You can't put some of his great stops down to just being physical. Putting the attacker in two minds and not making it easy for them showed a smart rugby brain in that department (his post match touch screen last year with Wells was an insight into this) and his positioning for long field kicks made it so much harder for the opposition kicker and team to pin us down nearer our line (he was usually 2/3 steps ahead of most FB's when setting off for a long kick downfield to the corner), however like you said the attacking aspect just became frustrating as you'd think he'd learn over time but hasn't seemed to at all.

Well he rarely showed much of a rugby brain in defence this season with missed tackles, leaving the high bombs to anyone but himself, getting knocked out on his own line when he should have gone to ground, not covering the ball movement in our danger zone and arriving too late to prevent a score, running down blind alleys, failing to pass and dying with the ball. Now this is evidence of a player without much of a rugby brain.

I put his one on one tackling down to bravery and physique and because he has lost a bit of speed his kick returns are now easily dealt with. I agree putting the attacker in two minds is good FB play however 19 year old Golding who you do not rate has shown this skill on a couple of occassions this season too. I regard this as a good skill but not evidence of a good rugby brain which is usually shown on attack by effective linking and creating space or an overlap for teammates.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:11 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Well he rarely showed much of a rugby brain in defence this season with missed tackles, leaving the high bombs to anyone but himself, getting knocked out on his own line when he should have gone to ground, not covering the ball movement in our danger zone and arriving too late to prevent a score, running down blind alleys, failing to pass and dying with the ball. Now this is evidence of a player without much of a rugby brain.

I put his one on one tackling down to bravery and physique and because he has lost a bit of speed his kick returns are now easily dealt with. I agree putting the attacker in two minds is good FB play however 19 year old Golding who you do not rate has shown this skill on a couple of occassions this season too. I regard this as a good skill but not evidence of a good rugby brain which is usually shown on attack by effective linking and creating space or an overlap for teammates.

What you're talking about in your first paragraph is form not rugby brain/ability and you can pick periods of the careers of McGuire, Burrow and Sinfield and accuse them of the same.

And Golding showing the same as Hardaker in defence......no not even close. If anything we all know on here you're the one who doesn't (and never has) rated someone and it's Hardaker, and you wanted BJB to get the FB gig ahead of him back in 2013/14.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:11 pm  

Just on Zak's kick returns, while I'm inclined to agree he's maybe looked a yard slower I think that can also be put down to who we've had to field on the wings.

Zak was really the only potent returner all year while he was here, not to mention the added threat of been able to link with Hall/Briscoe. With that gone I'd suggest it made it much easier for opposition to deal with kick returns.

Same can be said for our shambolic defence and the effect it might have had on his own defensive contributions. Having said that this has carried over to the NRL with the much smaller Barba carrying him over last week.

Now I'm not saying we should excuse Zak for his terrible form and off season issues, but if he comes back from the NRL with a point to prove and head screwed on then we at least should try and keep him IMO

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:48 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

What you're talking about in your first paragraph is form not rugby brain/ability and you can pick periods of the careers of McGuire, Burrow and Sinfield and accuse them of the same.

And Golding showing the same as Hardaker in defence......no not even close. If anything we all know on here you're the one who doesn't (and never has) rated someone and it's Hardaker, and you wanted BJB to get the FB gig ahead of him back in 2013/14.

Golding showed exactly the same skill you mentioned i.e.: not committing too early when a player broke through the line and could have passed to a supporting player and in doing so forced the attacker into a position where a try saving tackle was then made.

I think I have been proven correct on my comments on Hardaker. I have applauded some of his defence but pointed out his very poor attacking play, a lack of passing ability and dying with the ball. You and others failed to spot this at the time and while most others now can plainly see what I was talking about you are still in denial.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:59 pm  

Golding's showed that skill once or twice this year, whereas Hardaker showed it in nearly every game last year. And although his passing game is below par for a modern day fullback, calling Hardaker's attacking play 'very poor' is a little OTT. Let's not forget he was MOS last year.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:00 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Golding showed exactly the same skill you mentioned i.e.: not committing too early when a player broke through the line and could have passed to a supporting player and in doing so forced the attacker into a position where a try saving tackle was then made.

I think I have been proven correct on my comments on Hardaker. I have applauded some of his defence but pointed out his very poor attacking play, a lack of passing ability and dying with the ball. You and others failed to spot this at the time and while most others now can plainly see what I was talking about you are still in denial.

No I think pretty much everybody barring one or two admitted his flaws in attack and were hopeful with his age and experience that he'd learn to improve in that department.

You saying Golding has shown up as good defensively is pretty much showing up your long held agenda against Hardaker though clearly.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:06 pm  

tenerifeRhino wrote:

How has he suddenly become to small to play at FB. He looks much if the same build as a Moylan, Slater and Tedesco and bigger than say Barba

Because his game is based on tackle busts, quick play the balls and stopping try's. This is much easier when you are one of the bigger and stronger players. In the NRL he is not. All those blokes you mention are quicker and or more skillful with the ball than Hardaker.

Same applies if he's going to be a centre or winger. The blokes (and they are few) in those positions who are smaller than Zak are again much quicker and more skilful.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:21 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

No I think pretty much everybody barring one or two admitted his flaws in attack and were hopeful with his age and experience that he'd learn to improve in that department.

You saying Golding has shown up as good defensively is pretty much showing up your long held agenda against Hardaker though clearly.

I certainly have a long held opinion of Hardaker's skills and deficiencies which I have consistently voiced with very few agreeing with me at the time. In fact when I suggested there were several fullbacks in SL who were better on attack than Hardaker (eg Shaul, Dorn & Hanbury) this was treated with scorn by you and most others who thought ZH could walk on water.

Towards the end of last season and certainly this year most posters have become well aware not just of Hardaker's lack of form but that his attacking play lacks the basic skills. Which is exactly what I had been saying for several seasons. Now this is not about an agenda but is more about rugby acumen being upheld.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:42 pm  

If Hardaker and the Panthers have patience I think he can go well in the NRL. He's way too lightweight ATM (he seriously looks underweight up against NRL players), and with a full off season would bulk up considerably. Part of his lack of strength though may come from d*cking around for most of the year at Leeds. He didn't look physically short against NZ last year, who as a group are bigger than any NRL side.

The other problem is his positioning and general reading of the game is way off. He'd be best playing reserve grade for the rest of this year to work on those things, then the off-season to get ready for next year.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:52 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

I certainly have a long held opinion of Hardaker's skills and deficiencies which I have consistently voiced with very few agreeing with me at the time. In fact when I suggested there were several fullbacks in SL who were better on attack than Hardaker (eg Shaul, Dorn & Hanbury) this was treated with scorn by you and most others who thought ZH could walk on water.

You're just embarrassing yourself by that last line as you know most admitted he had work to do in attack.

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Towards the end of last season and certainly this year most posters have become well aware not just of Hardaker's lack of form but that his attacking play lacks the basic skills. Which is exactly what I had been saying for several seasons. Now this is not about an agenda but is more about rugby acumen being upheld.

His form in the second half of last year got him MOS.

Granted he's not as good as SOME make out, but he's definitely better than the low opinion you have of him that you've felt obliged to stick to from the time you thought BJB was a better option at FB than him.