Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:14 pm  

I’d say consistently failed for the last 7 years. I’m focused mainly of the regular season and the GF. The CC is a useful distraction but is really a luck of the draw thing and you win 3 games and you’ve won it as a SL team, therefore it’s not really a barometer for me.

I don’t think we’ve had a good junior production line for years, we’ve had the odd one or two but have they really fulfilled their potential year? Our signings from UK have been poor to average, certainly nothing like a JP or Gaz Ellis for ages, and our overseas signings have been much more miss than hit I think.

Add all that up and it’s consistent failure in terms of player strategy for years.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:24 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

I’d say consistently failed for the last 7 years. I’m focused mainly of the regular season and the GF. The CC is a useful distraction but is really a luck of the draw thing and you win 3 games and you’ve won it as a SL team, therefore it’s not really a barometer for me.

I don’t think we’ve had a good junior production line for years, we’ve had the odd one or two but have they really fulfilled their potential year? Our signings from UK have been poor to average, certainly nothing like a JP or Gaz Ellis for ages, and our overseas signings have been much more miss than hit I think.

Add all that up and it’s consistent failure in terms of player strategy for years.

Take the CC out and I still don’t think we’ve consistently failed, we’ve had 3 really bad seasons, but we’ve also won a GF, and being in the SF twice and the final once.

This is not me saying it’s been great or even acceptable but i just don’t see it as consistent failure.

There aren’t players like JP and Gaz Ellis about that move clubs like they used to SL is a totally different beast tgese days, same goes for OS signings. Which other SL club has signed the current England captain who is in their prime of their career from another SL club, Sam Tomkins is the only one i could probably think of, and he wasn’t in his prime, it just doesn’t happen anymore

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:27 pm  

Jack Cogger signs for Newcastle, potentially a domino in any move for Clune?

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:30 pm  

It doesn’t happen, and it can’t happen are not necessarily the same thing, although I agree with the dearth of top British players these days. In a funny way that also makes me all the more frustrated that our youth progression has been so disappointing given what we are up against.

I just think the whole transition on the player side from Goldens to now has been handled really badly by the club, it didn’t have to be this way with a bit more thought and execution.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:51 pm  

I agree Batley. Its so frustrating that the kinds of pitfalls that were always going to be a problem as the GG retired seem to be exactly the ones we've fallen into. The lack of focus on youth development has been almost criminal given its importance, and the other area has really fallen short in is choosing coaches. McDermott should have left after 2017 as it was obvious at the time he didn't have the first clue how to build a new side, we went for Furner despite his utter failure at the Raiders, and then overreacted to a lucky cup win under Agar which led to him showing why he has failed everywhere else.

I think you have to ignore the cup in in looking back at our record over the past decade. We won 3 games in a COVID-affected year with only the Wigan game really worth talking about. The 2017 victory was welcome, but lets not kid ourselves that we weren't very lucky as Cas bottled it and Hardaker got banned just before the final. The final itself was really, really dire, I'd say the lowest quality GF there's been.

What those wins did, if anything, was gloss over the underlying decline in playing standards at the club, and caused us to make a lot of bad decisions, starting with coaches but also signings. Signings and departures from 2016 really is a terrible mess, and our youth development has simply not filled enough gaps. We've only had three club-produced debutants in the last three seasons, and not one debut this year.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:08 pm  

Once were Loiners wrote:

I agree Batley. Its so frustrating that the kinds of pitfalls that were always going to be a problem as the GG retired seem to be exactly the ones we've fallen into. The lack of focus on youth development has been almost criminal given its importance, and the other area has really fallen short in is choosing coaches. McDermott should have left after 2017 as it was obvious at the time he didn't have the first clue how to build a new side, we went for Furner despite his utter failure at the Raiders, and then overreacted to a lucky cup win under Agar which led to him showing why he has failed everywhere else.

I think you have to ignore the cup in in looking back at our record over the past decade. We won 3 games in a COVID-affected year with only the Wigan game really worth talking about. The 2017 victory was welcome, but lets not kid ourselves that we weren't very lucky as Cas bottled it and Hardaker got banned just before the final. The final itself was really, really dire, I'd say the lowest quality GF there's been.

What those wins did, if anything, was gloss over the underlying decline in playing standards at the club, and caused us to make a lot of bad decisions, starting with coaches but also signings. Signings and departures from 2016 really is a terrible mess, and our youth development has simply not filled enough gaps. We've only had three club-produced debutants in the last three seasons, and not one debut this year.

I'd add retentions to that list. We have chosen to stick with players who were obviously not of the quality required A) because they were cheap (Covid probably played it's part in this) and B) Out of wildley optimistic belief that they would develop into top line performers.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:35 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

It doesn’t happen, and it can’t happen are not necessarily the same thing, although I agree with the dearth of top British players these days. In a funny way that also makes me all the more frustrated that our youth progression has been so disappointing given what we are up against.

I just think the whole transition on the player side from Goldens to now has been handled really badly by the club, it didn’t have to be this way with a bit more thought and execution.

I agree it’s been handled terribly but I do think we are now on a better path to fix it, it seems we’ve been after quick fixes ever since McDermott left, I also think McDermott was part of the issue in those last couple of years.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:39 pm  

The lack of youth and player development was not just a Leeds issue, all clubs have and are going through it. Of course there are some exceptions but the RL shot itself in the foot stopping academy and reserve grade teams relying entirely on lower divisions to provide new youth players.
We are going somewhere to correct this but the money across RL in general is prohibitive.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:42 pm  

Barrie’s Glass Eye wrote:

Jack Cogger signs for Newcastle, potentially a domino in any move for Clune?

Could be. Or Penrith sign Clune to cover Coggers position in the squad.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:12 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

It’s hard to do it, lots can go wrong. It’s easier to give yourself the best possible chance by having the right youth set up, bringing in the best of British and signing the right overseas players. It’s this that we’ve consistently failed at IMO.

Seems a long time since we signed out of contract and/or paid a significant transfer fee for top UK talent from outside the club (I’m not sure if we can/should include Bentley?)

In my time as a season ticket holder from 1980 onwards, just off the top of my head I can think of

Schoey
Crooks
Hanley
Senior
Harris
Ellis
JP