Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:03 am  

dont forget that before it was overturned FTV wrote on here the ban was deserved ...

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:30 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

You seem like a reasonable chap and you obviously know your Rugby, but I think you're looking at this through red and white glasses. The act of foul play, and subsequent lifting of the ban has attracted dismay from all corners of the sport - some (not all) Saints supporters excepting. If you want to see round the back police type restraining holds legitimised in the sport you re are in the wrong, if you don't you are in the right. Seems pretty simple to me. By the way, I don't think Knowles is a dirty player and I certainly don't think he intented harm. However, you have to draw the line somewhere.The RFL seem incapable of doing that.

You could say lets have a look at the other side of the coin and realise all this season clubs and fans have been complaining all year that the discipline tribunal has not been fit for purpose with the amount of excessive bans. Strangely Leeds and Saints have suffered most in this regard and its no suprise that these clubs have used the appeal process more than other clubs.

The difference between the two clubs is that Saints have avoided making appeals that are potential frivolous in nature, the Knowles appeal was based on contradiction by the tribunal and they had to concede the incident as a professional foul to which currently they don't conclude with match bans.

In a way, all the euphoria of the past few days may force the RFL to overall the independent tribunal practices, the RFL also need to discuss with the paymasters SKY, they (SKY) like drama's to be drawn out as much as possible and the Sky Muppets just love playing slow motion replays and giving assertive opinions instead of commentating on the game unlike the excellent C4 commentary.

Another bone of contention is players faking injuries which could reach reach epidemic proportions if its not addressed, Rugby League is a gladitorial sport but we are heading in the direction of a "snowflake sport" similar to football.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:37 am  

We can argue all day long about this specific incident.
The vast majority of rugby people (bar a handful of Saints fans) agree that Knowles should not be playing.
But he is, so let's get on with it.

What this week has clearly shown is that the MRP is totally incompetent and no longer fit for purpose.
Everyone can agree on this.
They have basically said.
We will make a decision with very little medical knowledge.
A team can then bring a medical expert into the appeal and essentially expose that we don't know what we are doing.
Why did the experts at the RFL not decide that it was not dangerous? And twice?
Total incompetence.

The great thing for Saints is that one of their best players is free to play.
The great thing for us is that all neutral fans want us to win.
A leveller? Probably not.
But certainly a motivator.
I expect Saints to win, but there will be a hollowness to it.
If Leeds were in the circumstances Saints find themselves in, I would obviously still want to win, but it would not be a sweet win, and we would have prepare ourselves to be the most unpopular team in the league.

You can't really blame Saints.
The blame clearly lies with the RFL.
But they will get plenty of stick at away games next season.
Many fans won't care because success is all they are interested in.
But many care about the integrity of the game and will have a sour taste in their mouths.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:53 am  

Simmo71 wrote:

But many care about the integrity of the game and will have a sour taste in their mouths.

This event, as the culmination of what's been happening all season, has been genuinely devastating to people's perceptions. It might just be me but I was just in the process of putting a few groups together to go World Cup games and this, after the Martin thing, well let's just say it's hard to get any positive reactions now.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:59 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

It's a inexcusable result of a disastrously run system that has seen players incorrectly banned or otherwise inconsistently treated throughout the year.

Many Leeds fans were right on the edge of giving up following the three games Martin was banned for. It's close to a miracle that they didn't end Leeds' season.

This joke of a result, the overturning of what was for once a clear and justifiable ban for ugly foul play, will have a material effect on the sport's biggest event and who will be champions. And you pretend to innocently wonder why people have had enough?

There's talk that St Helens aren't to blame. I disagree, nobody forced them to chuck a hand grenade into the disciplinary system. They decided to do it despite agreeing it was foul play. They lost the appeal but saw a way to worm out of a ban on a technicality. The second appeal didn't find Knowles innocent, it agreed that the wording of the first appeal wasn't quite correct in its summation.

Incompetence at the RFL yes, but it was desperately cynical by St Helens to try and exploit it so that no ban would remain, effectively blowing up the system to get Knowles off.

It's a move which will both forever hang over their Grand Final win but more importantly has soured the views of thousands of people of our sport just when it needed them to be engaged ahead of the World Cup. Enjoy your ill gotten gains FTV, I hope you think it's worth it.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:46 am  

tad rhino wrote:

dont forget that before it was overturned FTV wrote on here the ban was deserved ...

I said Knowles was stupid and he would get a ban. He was and he did but the disciplinary ballsed it up.

I thought he’d get one match which would be harsh but he’d have nobody to blame but himself because we all know how trigger happy they’ve been - I mean Lees got a ban for literally existing on a rugby pitch before it was overturned. two matches was a lot for what Knowles did.

It’s difficult to argue against the case saints put forward.

As for people saying I think it was fine - it’s not fine, it got a penalty and yellow card. Is it really a two game ban though if people are really honest with themselves? Or is it a penalty and yellow card? Which seems more appropriate for something that is to be discouraged but wasn’t dangerous? People calling it a chicken wing have probably forgotten what those tackles looked like and how much more dangerous they are than this wrist holding.

If the initial review of the incident had come back and said Knowles grabbed a wrist to slow a PTB, it wasn’t outside range of movement so carried not risk of injury so yellow card sufficient and warning about technique I don’t think there would have been uproar. The uproar is now because an ill thought out and overly harsh punishment got overturned because it was ill thought out and overly harsh, but that’s not saints fault.

The MRP isn’t for for purpose and no doubt will get changed up. But talk of corruption and “hollow victories” and walking away from the game is just OTT ranting from people who would rather see the bloke banned even if the case for banning him didn’t make sense.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:22 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

If the initial review of the incident had come back and said Knowles grabbed a wrist to slow a PTB, it wasn’t outside range of movement so carried not risk of injury so yellow card sufficient and warning about technique I don’t think there would have been uproar.

Disagree with this - there were calls for him to be banned straight away, I think there would have been uproar if he hadn't got at least one match for it - especially considering some of the bans handed out this season.

it deserved at least a match, and bearing in mind Knowles has been banned previously 2 was correct.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:30 am  

Judder Man wrote:

You could say lets have a look at the other side of the coin and realise all this season clubs and fans have been complaining all year that the discipline tribunal has not been fit for purpose with the amount of excessive bans. Strangely Leeds and Saints have suffered most in this regard and its no suprise that these clubs have used the appeal process more than other clubs.

The difference between the two clubs is that Saints have avoided making appeals that are potential frivolous in nature, the Knowles appeal was based on contradiction by the tribunal and they had to concede the incident as a professional foul to which currently they don't conclude with match bans.

In a way, all the euphoria of the past few days may force the RFL to overall the independent tribunal practices, the RFL also need to discuss with the paymasters SKY, they (SKY) like drama's to be drawn out as much as possible and the Sky Muppets just love playing slow motion replays and giving assertive opinions instead of commentating on the game unlike the excellent C4 commentary.

Another bone of contention is players faking injuries which could reach reach epidemic proportions if its not addressed, Rugby League is a gladitorial sport but we are heading in the direction of a "snowflake sport" similar to football.

Not just one bone of contention with the disciplinary at the moment, more like a skeleton.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:33 am  

christopher wrote:

Disagree with this - there were calls for him to be banned straight away, I think there would have been uproar if he hadn't got at least one match for it - especially considering some of the bans handed out this season.

it deserved at least a match, and bearing in mind Knowles has been banned previously 2 was correct.

Exactly, the two game ban was the correct decision. Hardly anyone other than absolute partisans over at the usual place are disputing that.

The St Helens club found a legal loophole to get him out of paying the correct price for his foul play. Should they have done that? I think it is deeply cynical, to play games with the sport's public credibility just to get a player on the field for a game they were already likely to win.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:36 am  

What is sad is that Sezer will miss the game through foul play from an opponent. Whether Knowles plays or not wont impact the game as much as Sezer not playing.

If Leeds win it will be very sweet indeed - hopefully what has happened this week will galvanise the team into a huge performance where they "make the whole greater than the sum of its parts"

Go Rhinos