: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:42 pm  

This may be late as the discussion has moved on but:

Puig-Aubert wrote:

The team's relative discipline has been worsening since 2006 so I suspect most individuals would have got worse over this time - mirroring or led by the captain.

Using the stats on the SL website:

Year - Penalties conceded (No of Games) - Avg per SL Reg Rd -

2003 - 170 (28 ) - 6.07
2004 - 142 (28 ) - 5.07
2005 - 125 (28 ) - 4.46
2006 - 162 (28 ) - 5.79
2007 - 198 (27) - 7.33
2008 - 215 (27) - 7.96
2009 - 180 (22) - 8.18

The rot set in between Smith's second and third season.

While the numbers are still increasing under McClennan (that was happening anyway before he took over) the rate of increase has been declining under his tutelage.

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:42 pm  

Sibbs Rhinos wrote:

what about Ablett? he seems to have given away his fair share this year

Falls into the Smith category - worse this year.

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:42 pm  

Puig-Aubert wrote:

By accident you've prompted an interesting point.

I've just looked up 8 other players to see if their discipline has got better or worse, or, more to the point, I was looking to see how much worse.

Danny McGuire & Rob Burrow are far less likely to give away penalties this year than last year.

Ali & JJB are also improved under Mclennan (despite JJB being singled out unfairly as some sort of penalty machine this year) with JJB markedly better this year.

Lee Smith is worse this year, but last year stayed at the same level as under Tony Smith - mirroring the team.

Keith Senior and Jamie Peacock were terrible last year - far, far worse than 2007 but both have turned that round completely this year.

For the team to have changed so radically this year (from 9th worst to 2nd worst) there must be others, beyond Smith & Sinfield who have got far worse in 2009 if players like Peacock, Senior, JJB, Burrow & McGuire are actually conceding far less. Also suggests that something is being done to curb indiscipline but that some players are responding well, but others are not.

That's a very lazy job.

We need comparisons for all players for Smith's first two years in charge and Mclennans'

Then and only then can you doubt the obvious conclusion that this team is far more ill disciplined than its' predecessors.

In fact, the only reliable statistic is where we lie in the fair play table, rather than comparing ourselves from previous seasons and I am afraid THAT statistic doesn't lie.

Under Mclennan we are the 2nd most ill disciplined team in the league. Levels Smith's teams did not stoop to.

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:43 pm  

surely it shouldnt be about the people who give away the penalties but rather the type of penalties that as team we are giving away?

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:46 pm  

Puig-Aubert wrote:

Falls into the Smith category - worse this year.

Burgess slightly worse, Diskin markedly better this year.

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:48 pm  

G1 wrote:

That's a very lazy job.

We need comparisons for all players for Smith's first two years in charge and Mclennans'

Then and only then can you doubt the obvious conclusion that this team is far more ill disciplined than its' predecessors.

In fact, the only reliable statistic is where we lie in the fair play table, rather than comparing ourselves from previous seasons and I am afraid THAT statistic doesn't lie.

Under Mclennan we are the 2nd most ill disciplined team in the league. Levels Smith's teams did not stoop to.

I refer you to my noble colleagues statistics provided above.

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:52 pm  

tvoc wrote:

This may be late as the discussion has moved on but:



Using the stats on the SL website:

Year - Penalties conceded (No of Games) - Avg per SL Reg Rd -

2003 - 170 (28 ) - 6.07
2004 - 142 (28 ) - 5.07
2005 - 125 (28 ) - 4.46
2006 - 162 (28 ) - 5.79
2007 - 198 (27) - 7.33
2008 - 215 (27) - 7.96
2009 - 180 (22) - 8.18

The rot set in between Smith's second and third season.

While the numbers are still increasing under McClennan (that was happening anyway before he took over) the rate of increase has been declining under his tutelage.

Up to his final season Smith kept the penalties lower than his predecessor not something Mclennan has ever been able to manage.

2007 was very wide of Smith's previous three seasons whereas both Mclennans seasons have been far too high and higher than Smith's worse season.

Dress it up all you like but its' clear discipline is far worse under Mclennan than it was under Smith.

If he stays and he continues to fail with the issue then one wonders what the figures will look like in Mclennan'sennan's fourth year in charge.

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:56 pm  

Lawrie L wrote:

surely it shouldnt be about the people who give away the penalties but rather the type of penalties that as team we are giving away?

A valid point Loz

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:03 pm  

G1 wrote:

Up to his final season Smith kept the penalties lower than his predecessor not something Mclennan has ever been able to manage.

Yes, lower than his predecessor's final season (not necessarily Powell's best or even average return though)

G1 wrote:

2007 was very wide of Smith's previous three seasons whereas both Mclennans seasons have been far too high and higher than Smith's worse season.

The team was already becoming less disciplined under Smith, McClennan has managed to slow that trend although he hasn't managed to halt the increases as yet.

G1 wrote:

If he stays and he continues to fail with the issue then one wonders what the figures will look like in Mclennan'sennan's fourth year in charge.

If the current trend continues in year three and four under McClennan the rate should reduce to around 7.58 compared to Smith's final return of 7.33. He may need a fifth season to return a figure below Smith's final season at Leeds.

Fingers crossed eh?

: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:03 pm  

Even if our levels are similar to last year,maybe other teams have improved theirs and why we are the second worst.