Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:26 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

And that "building from strength" has constituted a failure to replace Buderus, despite the CEO's promises.
.

Hang on, are you now accepting we are building from strength or not?

Constant contract renewals for players in decline.

Such as (Kirke aside but he's never hit any peaks to decline from)?

A failure to integrate the next generation of players, other than when forced to by injuries.

Like Ward, Sutcliffe and Singleton?

The ship has sailed on building from strength

Like I said, how much stronger than back to back champions can you be?

Given the current contractual commitments the club has, the best that can be expected is papering over the growing cracks

I doubt the players and coaches share your view and fully understand why the players have spoken about their "bubble" these last two years. It seems to me the Leeds players should be looking to isolate themselves from their own fans rather than opposition players, fans or media.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:34 pm  

Not suprisingly the usual suspects come on and criticise Kirke . To try and say Moore is anyway near comparable is nonsense ,and yes i do watch games closely and have seen him tackle key players out of periods of matches including Long in grand finals . You know what they say there are lies , damn lies and stats . As for the comment of it being a disgrace that a succesion of coaches have picked him i for one would trust them more than the majority on this forum .

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:39 pm  

G1 wrote:

A a first team player at leeds for 8 seasons now how much money do you think he is on? More than Singleton?

I asked if kirke would step up in the absence of Peacock. In the Hull game he made 7 carries. In the Wigan game he made 3 carries. In the Saints game he made 5 carries. I think the question has been answered.

He's a powder puff player who is scared of the ball. It is, frankly, criminal that successive coaches have accepted such a cowardly offensive work rate from a forward on such a consistent basis.

It depresses me greatly that I will have to watch the big cowardly lion hopefully share in the succeses earned by his hard working team mates for the next two years.

At least Singleton appears to show some appetite for the ball.

So logically any forward with a similarly poor go forward record you would consider to also be a "powder puff player" with "such a cowardly offensive work rate"

Step forward (notice I didn't say charge forward) Ryan Bailey.

In the Hull game big Ryan managed just 9 carries (a whopping 2 more than Kirke) giving him only 2 metres more than Kirke with an average gain less than Kirke. In the Wigan game Kirke went off injured and only had few minutes on the field yet he still managed to almost double the average gain on Bailey with 32 metres in 3 carries. While in the Saints game Kirke averaged 9 metres to Bailey's 5 metres. In fact in the season to date Kirke has made 699 metres with an average gain of 7.9 metres - while Bailey has made 421 metres with an average gain of 5.2 metres

You might also have asked who else didn't step up in the absence of Peacock.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:49 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

So logically any forward with a similarly poor go forward record you would consider to also be a "powder puff player" with "such a cowardly offensive work rate"

Step forward (notice I didn't say charge forward) Ryan Bailey.

In the Hull game big Ryan managed just 9 carries (a whopping 2 more than Kirke) giving him only 2 metres more than Kirke with an average gain less than Kirke. In the Wigan game Kirke went off injured and only had few minutes on the field yet he still managed to almost double the average gain on Bailey with 32 metres in 3 carries. While in the Saints game Kirke averaged 9 metres to Bailey's 5 metres. In fact in the season to date Kirke has made 699 metres with an average gain of 7.9 metres - while Bailey has made 421 metres with an average gain of 5.2 metres

You might also have asked who else didn't step up in the absence of Peacock.

Is that it? Your defence of Kirke is that Bailey is not much better. Well goodness me, let's give kirke a 6 year contract on the basis that he is only slightly less worse than Bailey.

If you want to discuss Bailey I will happily do so. The quantity of his offensive work rate has been the weak part of his game for too long (though the quality is far superior to Kirkes), his form has been dreadful recently and I think he should focus more on his game than his reputation. OK, now about Ian Kirke, what do you make of his offensive (literally and figuratively) "contribution"?

If you really want to compare to other players I'd suggest applying the highest common denominator and asking why he can't match peacock, or JJBs work rate.

There's nobody who is as consistently shy about carrying the ball forward as kirke.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:03 pm  

G1 wrote:

Is that it? Your defence of Kirke is that Bailey is not much better. Well goodness me, let's give kirke a 6 year contract on the basis that he is only slightly less worse than Bailey.

If you want to discuss Bailey I will happily do so. The quantity of his offensive work rate has been the weak part of his game for too long (though the quality is far superior to Kirkes), his form has been dreadful recently and I think he should focus more on his game than his reputation. OK, now about Ian Kirke, what do you make of his offensive (literally and figuratively) "contribution"?

If you really want to compare to other players I'd suggest applying the highest common denominator and asking why he can't match peacock, or JJBs work rate.

There's nobody who is as consistently shy about carrying the ball forward as kirke.

You are mistaken. I am not defending Kirke's poor attacking record. I pose the question that in fairness you should apply the same description to Bailey as it was you that chose the games to highlight his lack of go forward which for these same games is on the same low level as Mr Bailey. (and the rest of the season too)

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:36 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

You are mistaken. I am not defending Kirke's poor attacking record. I pose the question that in fairness you should apply the same description to Bailey as it was you that chose the games to highlight his lack of go forward which for these same games is on the same low level as Mr Bailey. (and the rest of the season too)

This year Bailey has carried the ball 50% more than Kirke per match so whilst Bailey still leaves a lot to be desired he does not merit the monker Cowardly Lion that fits Kirke so well.

HTH

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:06 pm  

Don't you just love posters who call players cowards,who,if given the chance ,wouldn't have the 'nads to actually say it face to face with the player concerned.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:24 pm  

ploinerrhino wrote:

Not suprisingly the usual suspects come on and criticise Kirke . To try and say Moore is anyway near comparable is nonsense ,and yes i do watch games closely and have seen him tackle key players out of periods of matches including Long in grand finals . You know what they say there are lies , damn lies and stats . As for the comment of it being a disgrace that a succesion of coaches have picked him i for one would trust them more than the majority on this forum .

Are we talking Kirke in past seasons now becasue it's irrellevant what he's done in the past and even then he was far from this good consistent player you build him as.
As for Moore he hasn't been selected for nearly half as many games irrespective of form as Kirke yet when he is in the 17 matches Kirkes work rate with ease and also offfers an offload game.
As i've said time and again at 32 now "steady" isn't and shouldn't be enough to be in the 1st 17 for us especially when players like Singleton and Moore could do the same and more given the chance and again you've failed to answer how do you klnow he gives value for ££££ when you don't know what he's on??
For his size he should be smashing players week in week out with and without the ball not just 1 or 2 a month if that.
Finally EVERY player has at times had opinions whether good or bad about their worth and performances on here so its not just Kirek either.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:34 pm  

SBRhino wrote:

Don't you just love posters who call players cowards,who,if given the chance ,wouldn't have the 'nads to actually say it face to face with the player concerned.

I wouldn't say it to his face but only because I have more class than that, not because of being intimidated or anything.

I did once take the mickey out of him in the bar at harlequins for wearing his tights after the game.

Why do you think Kirke doesn't take the ball at the opposition?

PS, if you do love me, please keep it to yourself. I assume you're not my type.

Re: For the live of God,Allah or whoever-McDermott GO!!! : Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:38 pm  

...i've also taken the pish out of Chris Clarkson at a dinner but luckily he was too thick to get it (though JJB did explain it to him).

In my stupid and drunken youth I took the pish out of Ian Scott in the bogs at Mr Craigs (beauty of a joke which I'd be happy to repeat). And the most stupid and drunken thing I did was offer out Chris Burton in Digbys nightclub. Thankfully for me Trevor Clark persuaded him to ignore me and not kill me.