Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:24 am  

I doubt whoever the new coach is he will change the backroom staff in the short term if im honest.

But as Matt says getting rid of Butterill shouldnt be on anyones agenda.

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:38 am  

mattsrhinos1978 wrote:

The last thing the club should be doing is getting rid of Butterill.

Agreed on Long and JJB, a young coach like Carr certainly dosnt need JJB hovering around in the background for a few reasons imo and Longs just useless at his job, only reason needed.

One of the problems the club has had is the development of young players - they get the pick of the youngsters in west yorks yet seldom do any progress to the standard we need - when was the last time the club produced a SL standard half back, hooker or loose forward? Butterill has been around youth development at Leeds for years and as such has to shoulder some of the blame for this.

Part of the stagnation of the team in recent years is down to the lack of youth development - things need to change surely?

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:11 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

One of the problems the club has had is the development of young players - they get the pick of the youngsters in west yorks yet seldom do any progress to the standard we need - when was the last time the club produced a SL standard half back, hooker or loose forward? Butterill has been around youth development at Leeds for years and as such has to shoulder some of the blame for this.

Part of the stagnation of the team in recent years is down to the lack of youth development - things need to change surely?

Not sure about that. The club continues to produce excellent young players who then seem to struggle to maximise potential on joining the senior coaching set up. That's on the JJB's, Walker's, Long's and Agar's. Would be silly to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:19 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

One of the problems the club has had is the development of young players - they get the pick of the youngsters in west yorks yet seldom do any progress to the standard we need - when was the last time the club produced a SL standard half back, hooker or loose forward? Butterill has been around youth development at Leeds for years and as such has to shoulder some of the blame for this.

Part of the stagnation of the team in recent years is down to the lack of youth development - things need to change surely?

The problem hasn't been the development of young players, it's been the transition into the first team and maintaining the development. I'd say this has gone back years (Sutcliffe the perfect example, Stevie Ward - whilst being quality wasn't developed into the player he could have been, you could even question if Watkins reached the levels we expected).

Johnson is a quality hooker. Smith is a quality loose (if he switches on his brain a bit more), granted there's been a lack of half, but that could be down to who we could attract.

Not disputing there need to be changes in the club, but there doesn't need to be an over reaction and total clean out. There are some good things going on which shouldn't be over shadowed by the poor performance further up in the club.

And Butterill is a quality bloke with the right ethos and mindset to the game. He's the perfect person to shape you players

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:05 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

One of the problems the club has had is the development of young players - they get the pick of the youngsters in west yorks yet seldom do any progress to the standard we need - when was the last time the club produced a SL standard half back, hooker or loose forward? Butterill has been around youth development at Leeds for years and as such has to shoulder some of the blame for this.

Part of the stagnation of the team in recent years is down to the lack of youth development - things need to change surely?

Butterill does his job and does it extremely well, players regularly leave our scholorship regarded as among the best players in the country, the start of this season has been an outliner, because throughout his tenure his teams have beat everybody convincingly and the players have looked very good doing it. An example that springs to mind is Brad Martin, iv rarley seen a better 2nd row prospect coming out of Scholorship, he was exceptional, got to academy and just didnt kick on atall.

The problems with development have started once they leave Butterill and get to Academy and first team level imo, some of our players look more intelligent rugby players at 16 than they do at 18 and god knows what goes on with our S+C at Academy level.

Some of the time its not the clubs fault, as simple as this sounds, at times players just dont have the growth spurts needed, the pack containing Hird, Parsons, Watten, Atkinson, Gibbons, Wallace were brilliant at Scholorship, big and full of Skill, but 3 seasons later, none of them look much taller than they did at 16, certainly not compared to the players they played against at 16, Parsons has had a long term injury...Injury also has a bearing, we couldnt really have worse luck, if our best Juniors arnt injury prone then they're not a proper Leeds Junior.

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:10 am  

How many teams have produced top class halves, hookers at 13s in recent years?

Dodd and Lewis are only 2 halves. No hookers at all.

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:15 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

One of the problems the club has had is the development of young players - they get the pick of the youngsters in west yorks yet seldom do any progress to the standard we need - when was the last time the club produced a SL standard half back, hooker or loose forward? Butterill has been around youth development at Leeds for years and as such has to shoulder some of the blame for this.

Part of the stagnation of the team in recent years is down to the lack of youth development - things need to change surely?

I think we over hype the Young players we go get through. JJB is already talking about Newman as ‘international class’, and Gannon as a ‘superstar’. No they are not. Nowhere near. Are both promising young players and that should be enough. We’ve seen what can happen to young talent (Ward, Sutty, Broadbent )…..even Holroyd currently ……

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:33 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Carr would be ideal but whoever it is they have to be allowed to build his own team and culture and that means the removal of all the dead wood - JJB, Davidson, Bletsoe, Long, Chev, Butterill etc

None of us have a clue how these people perform in their day to day tasks. They may leave, they may not but it's just silly to demand their removal from such a position of ignorance.

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:36 pm  

Shabino wrote:

I think we over hype the Young players we go get through. JJB is already talking about Newman as ‘international class’, and Gannon as a ‘superstar’. No they are not. Nowhere near. Are both promising young players and that should be enough. We’ve seen what can happen to young talent (Ward, Sutty, Broadbent )…..even Holroyd currently ……

I actually agree with this. The days of teenagers coming into profesional open age rugby and being superstars on a regular basis are long gone.

Re: 2022 | Head Coach talk : Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:14 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

None of us have a clue how these people perform in their day to day tasks. They may leave, they may not but it's just silly to demand their removal from such a position of ignorance.

Their job is to produce a top class side that performs to its potential - even Stevie Wonder can see that is not happening - we don't need to see the intracacies of the day to day - the outputs are there for all to see - Leeds are second bottom of a very average SL. If a business was losing money do you pat the directors on the back because they are doing the day to day - grow up please