Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:39 pm  

SouthStandRegular wrote:

As a Leeds fan I'm embarrassed by some of the comments

This is the best team of the super league era.. saints have had better players for sure. But the consistency of effort of this saints team is unrivaled

I thought we would win today. Even at half time I was confident. Was waiting for that dip but they were too good.

Bring on next year. Looking forward to a more consistent Leeds Rhinos

No way! The competition is nowhere near the standard it was. Saints had far better sides in those 5 losing GFs but we were loads better and so were Wigan, Hull, Wire etc. Maybe the NRL salary cap is an issue so the only NRL players we get now are in decline or had disciplinary issues in Oz. Saints circa 2006 would pish all over that current team.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:42 pm  

St Helens were the better side. While we really missed Sezer and the missing outside backs it showed some of our fundamental issues, particularly with respect to lack of beef up front.

Plenty to build on for next season and a number of signings expected in the near future. Fingers crossed the likes of Newman and Fusitu'a play far more games as well. I wouldn't be surprised if our style of play changes again as this year Smith has been managing a team deficient in some key areas even at full strength.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:53 pm  

Lprhino wrote:

I don’t get why you feel the need to come on another board and make those kind of comments? If you think St Helens are the greatest club or most successful club or whatever else then fair play to you. I don’t agree, I don’t even think this is the best St Helens side of the last 15 years, let alone the best side ever.

I assume you’ve been to St Helens, there is literally nothing to do but play rugby league, it is a god awful place. Despite that and the fact St Helens have been champions for 4 years on the bounce. They don’t sell out, don’t even have the highest average attendance for gods sake. If you haven’t been to Leeds there are numerous other attractions and sports to compete with for players and fans. Despite that, despite the fact Leeds have been awful for a number of years they still have the highest average attendance, they still produce numerous high quality players and despite being fighting relegation half way through the season they got to Old Trafford and have St Helens a decent game.

Well done on winning, well deserved. Just try and have a little bit more class about yourself when you come onto another teams board and post about it.

St Helens a god awful place ?

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:57 pm  

ryano wrote:

No way! The competition is nowhere near the standard it was. Saints had far better sides in those 5 losing GFs but we were loads better and so were Wigan, Hull, Wire etc. Maybe the NRL salary cap is an issue so the only NRL players we get now are in decline or had disciplinary issues in Oz. Saints circa 2006 would pish all over that current team.

Oh, come on. Saints had far better teams when we kept beating them - very comforting opinion if you're a Leeds fan. Historical comparisons are completely bogus anyway. Sport is ever changing and you can't really compare sides more than a decade apart. They were both great - leave it at that. What I do find comical is why people are so obsessed with the best side in Super League history. Rugby League had a long and proud history before 1996 and the Wigan sides of the late 80's and 90's truly stand alone.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:58 pm  

ryano wrote:

No way! The competition is nowhere near the standard it was. Saints had far better sides in those 5 losing GFs but we were loads better and so were Wigan, Hull, Wire etc. Maybe the NRL salary cap is an issue so the only NRL players we get now are in decline or had disciplinary issues in Oz. Saints circa 2006 would pish all over that current team.

Comparing eras is always very difficult. The sports science in modern RL means that I think most teams from over 10 years ago couldn’t live with the intensity the game has now been played with. Whilst other eras have other attributes which define them, this Saints team embodies “intensity”, and is effectively era defining (for better or worse). Teams in the early 2000s may be considered more skilful, but had to do far less to strip defenders, and create opportunities. I’m very excited to get Dodd back into the team for next year, our average points score before good Friday was 12 points higher than after Dodd was injured.

It’s definitely true that consistently losing our best to Aus, as well as not even being in the conversation for any of the top NRL players coming over defines where we are as a competition, but that shouldn’t take away from Saints doing 4 in a row, or Leeds doing 3 in a row before us.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:31 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Comparing eras is always very difficult. The sports science in modern RL means that I think most teams from over 10 years ago couldn’t live with the intensity the game has now been played with. Whilst other eras have other attributes which define them, this Saints team embodies “intensity”, and is effectively era defining (for better or worse). Teams in the early 2000s may be considered more skilful, but had to do far less to strip defenders, and create opportunities. I’m very excited to get Dodd back into the team for next year, our average points score before good Friday was 12 points higher than after Dodd was injured.

It’s definitely true that consistently losing our best to Aus, as well as not even being in the conversation for any of the top NRL players coming over defines where we are as a competition, but that shouldn’t take away from Saints doing 4 in a row, or Leeds doing 3 in a row before us.

Maybe it's time the sport did away with the salary cap. It does seem with that we've sacrificed the absolute star quality of the likes of Lyon & Lauititi for a system that props up clubs who still don't compete at the top end of the comp.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:42 pm  

These sorts of comparisons are a bit pointless. The record books will show Sts having won most titles in a row. Hopefully that run ends this year, but you can only beat what's in front of you and its not Sts fault that the rest of SL has fallen so far behind. We all play to the same cap, so it all comes back to recruitment and coaching at the likes of Leeds and Wigan simply not being good enough.

It looks as though we have finally got the coaching right but even when everyone in our squad is fit its clearly inferior to Sts in too many positions and Smith has had to make do and mend since he arrived. We've got a number of our poorer senior players leaving (Sutcliffe, Dwyer, Thompson, Briscoe) and likely a few more new faces than so far announced. Whether that's enough is debateable - while we had several out St Helens with Dodd and Walmsley would be stronger as well.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:16 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

Maybe it's time the sport did away with the salary cap. It does seem with that we've sacrificed the absolute star quality of the likes of Lyon & Lauititi for a system that props up clubs who still don't compete at the top end of the comp.

I suppose the counter argument being Saints and Leeds didn’t have to sell their ground to for their success (unlike a certain other team before the SL era that shall remain nameless )

I certainly hope that in the IMG era sees a big push increase in the cap, though I certainly fear that all will happen is the. Same quality players see their market value inflated. As Warrington have shown with the marquee rule it’s not just an issue of money. Forcing more clubs to spend what Saint/Leeds/Wigan do on their academy would be a good start …

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:42 pm  

I'd say the cap needs a one-off increase to scrape back the years when it went backwards in real terms through staying flat. That would just mean that average players' salaries are back where they were a decade ago compared to other jobs.

But as you say, lifting the cap with no controls would just mean more money for existing players, for zero net benefit. I don't mind the marquee rule, but they may need to look at other exemptions, particularly those aimed at rewarding developing your own players.

Warrington is a bad example as buying your way to success has never worked. If you look at Leeds, the fact that our squad is apparently at/near the cap like Sts is ridiculous when you compare player for player, as a combined team would be hugely dominated by Sts. It just shows that if you don't manage it well you can end up in a real mess.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:36 am  

Just have an exemption for home grown talent.

So home grown players dont count on the salary cap. SIMPLE