: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:37 pm  

Puig-Aubert wrote:

Google some connotations of racism, racist and golf club and I bet there's plenty to suggest otherwise.

all I can go on is my GC.
2 years ago we had a black Captain...this year we have an Indian Vice Captain and a black President.

No more racism in golf nowadays than any other sport or indeed life in general apart from in the minds of people who have no contact with golf clubs apart from internet search engines

: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:22 pm  

Crossgates Rhino wrote: all I can go on is my GC. 2 years ago we had a black Captain...this year we have an Indian Vice Captain and a black President. No more racism in golf nowadays than any other sport or indeed life in general apart from in the minds of people who have no contact with golf clubs apart from internet search engines If you'd have stuck with the first papragraph I'd have thought fair enough, but the second paragraph suggests a man with a guilty conscience - and I doubt that's what you intended. Why so defensive? Golf clubs have a history of bigotry - something you alluded to yourself in your earlier post and once again above. I don't doubt things have improved - but that sort of bigotry doesn't dissapear overnight. The membership may have altered and attitudes watered down but many of the old bigots will still be in place. Maybe the law prevents blatant discrimination by the clubs themselves but cultures take many many years to change. A Google search brings up pages of examples of racism within golf clubs both here and abroad. I don't doubt you aren't racist but a head in the sand attitude just prolongs the problem. Here's just one example that I spotted that had a local link. It gives some pretty good examples: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/apr/02/golf.sport

Crossgates Rhino wrote: all I can go on is my GC. 2 years ago we had a black Captain...this year we have an Indian Vice Captain and a black President. No more racism in golf nowadays than any other sport or indeed life in general apart from in the minds of people who have no contact with golf clubs apart from internet search engines If you'd have stuck with the first papragraph I'd have thought fair enough, but the second paragraph suggests a man with a guilty conscience - and I doubt that's what you intended. Why so defensive? Golf clubs have a history of bigotry - something you alluded to yourself in your earlier post and once again above. I don't doubt things have improved - but that sort of bigotry doesn't dissapear overnight. The membership may have altered and attitudes watered down but many of the old bigots will still be in place. Maybe the law prevents blatant discrimination by the clubs themselves but cultures take many many years to change. A Google search brings up pages of examples of racism within golf clubs both here and abroad. I don't doubt you aren't racist but a head in the sand attitude just prolongs the problem. Here's just one example that I spotted that had a local link. It gives some pretty good examples: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/apr/02/golf.sport

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:17 am  

I really cannot see where I have a "head in the sand attitude" or "guilty conscience"?
I never said there is NO racism in golf that would be a ridiculous statement but you gave a link to one man who quotes a couple of incidents over god knows how many years.
It will take time to totally remove racist attitudes from golf AND nearly every other sport. How many times over the years have we had complaints of a racist nature on these very boards?

It will take time to remove this cancer from our sports but it will happen in time as the , as you said, old bigots, die away.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:19 am  

Crossgates Rhino wrote:

I really cannot see where I have a "head in the sand attitude" or "guilty conscience"?
I never said there is NO racism in golf that would be a ridiculous statement but you gave a link to one man who quotes a couple of incidents over god knows how many years.
It will take time to totally remove racist attitudes from golf AND nearly every other sport. How many times over the years have we had complaints of a racist nature on these very boards?

It will take time to remove this cancer from our sports but it will happen in time as the , as you said, old bigots, die away.

The head in the sand perception comes from the first comment:

"So out of touch with the modern golf club" ergo the modern golf club harbours no racism.

The defensive style of the last post suggested you were dismissive of pages and pages of evidence of racism in golf clubs - a trend you continue in the post above.

Overall we're probably in broad agreement though - that there is racism in golf but that its reducing - where we differ is my belief that racism is still more widespread and more insidious in golf than in other sports or walks of life. That's partly through golf's record in this regard (ask yourself why the joke that sparked this used a golf club rather than rugby/working men's/cricket/football etc) and partly because of the evidence I can get through the computer.

Google doesn't provide one article citing racist attitudes - there are pages upon pages. My guess is the only sport with more would be football but that's a far larger sport and one where the racism evidenced will mainly be fan based and/or political and be through association. Within golf the racism tends to be within the institutions and administrators themselves rather than the 'typical' (generally white) membership, another reason for believing that whilst golf has and will change it'll be slower than a reflection of the societal change you would see in other areas.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:08 am  

Racism within Golf produced 1,300,000 results
Racism within rugby league produced 423,000 results
Now taking into account the difference in popularity between the 2 sports this suggests that racism is more prevalent in RL?
Without being involved in the sport you are not really in a position to comment too greatly.
Google is great but believe me it doesn't always show the full story

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:11 pm  

Crossgates Rhino wrote:

Racism within Golf produced 1,300,000 results
Racism within rugby league produced 423,000 results
Now taking into account the difference in popularity between the 2 sports this suggests that racism is more prevalent in RL?
Without being involved in the sport you are not really in a position to comment too greatly.
Google is great but believe me it doesn't always show the full story

I guess it depends on what you search for. The search terms for rugby league are likely to bring in alot of rugby union as well as league but even leaving that aside a simple 'racism rugby league' brings in 123,000 whereas 'racism golf' brought in 1.3 milion.

Then look at what the stories are about. In 'rugby' they tend to be about racist sledging by players during games or by racist comments from supporters (of which there are far more than for golf). In golf they tend to be about clubs and administrators - my very point. Contrast that with the RL - not many stories about racist club administrators keeping out the Jews and darkies are there?

I don't think my position is radically different to your own. You are a member of a club whose policies are markedly non-racist but like me you have little direct experience beyond that - if you tried to quantify that statistically it would be utterly irrelevent. For a more accurate picture of the way the game is administered by clubs we both rely on the internet - the difference lies in how we view what the internet tells us.

[Wheels]

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:07 pm  

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:51 pm  

Wheels wrote:

Both white I note.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:19 pm  

Puig-Aubert wrote:

Both white I note.

The bottom is actually cut off.

They're standing on a black man.

: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:31 pm  

UnleashKeith Carnegie wrote:

The bottom is actually cut off.

They're standing on a black man.

In stilletos probably.